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Category Archives: Agents

Defending Okung: An Interview with Jimmy Halsell (Pt. 2)

06 Wednesday Apr 2016

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Jimmy Halsell, NFL agent

On Tuesday, we posted an interview with former agent and ‘Skins cap guy J.I. ‘Jimmy’ Halsell regarding his work with new Broncos OT Russell Okung on his new contract. However, we had even more questions about the process of working with Okung and Jimmy’s thoughts on the reaction to the deal. We finish up our interview today.


 

How did you come to work with Okung on the contract? Did he approach you independently? Did the NFLPA play a role? Did you have a prior relationship with him?  “When I read last summer that he was going to do his second contract without an agent, but with the assistance of an expert, I knew that was right in my proverbial wheelhouse. I then put on my recruiter hat and leveraged my connections to get in touch with him prior to the 2015 season. That said, Russ and I never talked until the end of the season as he began to turn his attention to his impending second contract.  We quickly realized the mutual benefit and agreed to work together.”

 

What were the negatives you had going into free agency that you had to overcome?  “Russ’ January shoulder injury was the biggest obstacle going into free agency.  If Russ doesn’t incur that injury, then his free agent process is significantly different, even without the ability to talk to teams in advance of the start of free agency.”

Did Internet reaction to the contract surprise you?  “Not at all, since last summer when Russ announced his intentions, one could see the skepticism from agents and, in turn, from the media. That said, the overwhelming majority of players need an agent to advocate for them; Russ is unique given his personality, intelligence, and willingness to act on his vision.  The fact is that the media has misconstrued Russ’ contract at least in part (not in all instances) because there is a turf-protection agenda from some agents.  However, many athletes will not go Russ’ route not because of the misconstrued contract he signed but because they don’t have the same tools Russ possesses, and that’s OK, because that’s what agents are for.  So my overarching point is that, proverbially, everyone can eat.”

Do you plan on working with other players on their deals? Would you entertain such work if you were approached?  “In addition to Russ, I’ve worked on a couple of other deals this offseason as a consultant to the certified agent.  Regarding working directly with players, again, I don’t envision a lot of players having the confidence to pursue the path Russ did, but for those players who do have that confidence, then I’d absolutely be willing to be a consultant, just as I was to Russ.”

Make sure to follow Jimmy on Twitter here for his thoughts on the business of the game, with thoughts and analysis you won’t find anywhere else.

Defending Okung: An Interview with Jimmy Halsell (Pt. 1)

05 Tuesday Apr 2016

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Jimmy Halsell, NFL agent

Many argue that the NFLPA has conducted a rather extensive campaign to make contract advisors superfluous over the past couple years. One of the main elements of this campaign has been the free agency of OT Russell Okung. Okung made it clear going into free agency that he would do it without an agent, and he fearlessly entered into this ‘experiment’ with tools provided by the players association.

Obviously, this was met with consternation by veteran agents as well as newer ones who saw this as a transparent attempt by the union to rid itself of contract advisors and the fees they charge. So when Okung’s turned out to be far less than the flashy, big-bucks deal that some forecasted, critics came out in force.

With this in mind, we reached out to J.I. Halsell, who assisted Okung during the free agency process. J.I. is no rookie at this. Not only is he a former agent with one of the most prestigious firms in the business (Priority Sports, which has offices in Chicago, Los Angeles and Atlanta), and not only is J.I. formerly the Redskins’ cap specialist, but he’s probably the only guy on the Internet who’s dedicated to making the cap easier to digest and understand for the rank-and-file fan. He deals with cap questions on his Twitter account, and also runs a new site called NFLContractMetrics.com, which you’ll be hearing more about in this space in the near future.

We asked J.I. several questions related to the deal Okung signed, and we’ll have those tomorrow, but today, we wanted to focus solely on the deal. With that in mind, we asked this: What are the strengths of the deal? What are the strongest benefits for Okung?

His response is below.


 

Russ’ road to free agency was complicated by the shoulder injury he suffered in the Seahawks’ playoff loss to the Panthers, and it was a significant obstacle in hammering out a deal. That said, while we would have preferred a long-term deal, we expected that we were going to have to do a one-year deal, and then hit the market again next year.  The Broncos’ offer of a one-year deal with a base value of $5M (with the opportunity to earn up to $8M total) was the best offer we had from a total value perspective.

A lot has been made of the fact that this one-year deal has no money guaranteed at signing.  Other one-year offers made to Russ had money guaranteed, but not the same opportunity from a total value standpoint, so as we evaluated the Broncos’ offer, Russ and I were comfortable with his ability to earn the $1M workout bonus in Denver’s deal and accordingly viewed it as a “practical” guarantee.  So we viewed it as a one-year deal worth $5M with a practical guarantee of $1M on a club where there was mutual, strong interest.

With us feeling comfortable with the terms of the one-year portion of the deal, when Denver expressed interest in the “2-in-1” contract structure (a structure that had also been proposed by other suitors with significantly less money), if Russ were to take on that structure, then it was going to have to make sense financially. The deal proposed would be for one year with a club option for a multi-year deal thereafter. Russ viewed the option to add a four-year deal from 2017-2020 as a top-tier offensive tackle contract.

Denver’s offer was worth $12M per year, and would pay $20.5M fully guaranteed at the time the option was exercised, as well as $35.5M of the value in the first three years. When I viewed deals on the market at all positions whose ‘paper years’  (meaning without consideration of ‘old years’ already under contract) were four years in length, less than four paid more than $30M in the first three years, and only one paid more than $20.5M guaranteed. So again, with that perspective, Russ felt comfortable with the four-year deal part of this 2-in-1 structure, because even with the cap increasing and with a good 2016 season, Russ would be hard pressed to find a four-year deal that would pay to the same levels as the four-year deal contained in the Denver deal.

Whether or not Denver exercises the option remains to be seen, and will largely be dependent on Russ’ 2016 “prove it” performance.  If they choose to not exercise the option, then Russ got the best one-year deal he could, and will hit the market in 2017 as he originally thought he would under his injury circumstances.  If Denver exercises the option, then Russ gets a four-year deal that, relative to other pure four-year deals, is exceptional.


More from J.I. tomorrow.

When It’s Over: A Real Agent’s Experiences (Pt. 2)

01 Friday Apr 2016

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NFL agent

Today, Pro Football Management’s Howard Shatsky, who’s worked with such notable NFL players as Michael Strahan, Brian Westbrook and Mike McCrary, wraps up his thoughts on how to be forthright with a player when his career prospects are dim.


 

Telling a young man that it’s time to move on from his football dreams is a very difficult conversation to have.  I do not want to be the person who crushes a young man’s dream of playing in the NFL.  However, I also do not want to be the person who encourages a player to keep trying when there is virtually no chance of success.

One reason why is because, in most cases, the player does not work during this time.  Thus, when he finally realizes his NFL dream is over, he is 4-5 years behind his graduating class in terms of work experience.  So, what can that player put on a resume?  A prospective employer is not impressed by a resume with no work experience. An interview where the former player tells a potential employer that he has not worked for the last few years because he was training to play in the NFL does not usually go well.  Thus, by avoiding this talk, I feel the agent is doing his client a disservice.

I recently had to have this difficult conversation with one of my players.  I told him I had done everything I could to try and get him an NFL opportunity, but after almost two years of trying, I felt an obligation to be honest with him and tell him I did not think I would be able to get him that NFL opportunity that he so desperately wants.  This conversation was particularly difficult because I feel the player does have the ability to play in the NFL.

I told him that if he felt another agent could get him a chance, I would terminate the Standard Representation Agreement (SRA) between us and that he would be free to sign with another agent.  I also told him that if he did want to keep trying, I would stick by him and continue to do my best.  I suggested he try playing in the CFL, getting some great game film and then trying to come back and play in the NFL.  It does happen: Dolphins DE Cameron Wake is a prime example of this, and became one of the NFL’s best defensive lineman after a short stay north of the border.  But again, Wake is the exception.

The conversation took place while I was having lunch with my wife.  After we hung up, I turned to her and said, ‘you realize I feel like I just ruined that kid’s life and crushed his dream.’  However, is that really what I did? Or did I help my client by encouraging him to write his resume and get a job?

I recall Bill Parcells telling a client of mine that if the day ever came when he was tired of getting hit in the head on a daily basis, that there was no shame in moving on.  I believe Bill was correct.  In this case, the player is an extremely intelligent person, and as I told him, I felt he could be successful with or without the NFL, and that the NFL was not the end all and be all.  As an intelligent young man, I told him I felt he could be very successful in the business world, and that if he did take my advice, I would do whatever I could to help him get his first job outside of football.  As of now, I do not know what the player’s decision will be.

What I do know is that by being honest with my client, I had fulfilled the promise I make to every player or coach I represent: that I will never lie to them and always look out for their best interests.  The final decision is always the players.  Will he decide to take my advice and ‘hang up his cleats?’  That remains to be seen.  However, I can sleep well at night knowing that although it was extremely difficult, I did what I had promised: I gave him the best advice I could.

When It’s Over: A Real Agent’s Experiences

31 Thursday Mar 2016

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I asked longtime NFLPA contract advisor Howard Shatsky of Professional Football Management to provide me with his thoughts on how, and when, to tell a player it’s time to ‘pursue his life’s work,’ as legendary Steelers coach Chuck Noll used to tell players he’d cut.

Howard made some excellent points. His thoughts are below:


What’s the best way to handle a player who is projected as a late-round pick or an undrafted free agent?  When is too long when it comes to pursuing NFL dreams?

Obviously, many of these players are released before even making an NFL roster, or after a season on the practice squad, or at best a year or two on the 53-man roster.  So what’s an agent’s obligation regarding a young man’s non-football future? During my 27 years as an agent, I have had to have this conversation with many players.

Some agents choose the easy way out.  They just stop taking the player’s phone calls until they are fired and no longer have to deal with that client.  Others will tell the player to keep working hard, that an opportunity is coming. The reality is that if one of these “bottom of the roster” players is released and is not picked up for an entire year, he has very little chance of getting back in the league.

This is not to say it does not happen.  I recently represented a player from a small school who went undrafted and sat out the entire year.  However while sitting out, he had a job and would work out before and after going to work.  Most players do not work during this time, even though it is physically impossible to train for eight hours a day.  When asked what they are up to, they often say they are “training to get back in the NFL.”  To me, that is a synonym for unemployed.  There is no reason a player cannot work while attempting to get back in the league.

Ultimately my client’s hard work paid off.  He performed so well at the Regional Combine that 14 NFL teams expressed interest in him.  He ultimately signed with a team and was released, then picked up by another NFL club and spent the entire season on their practice roster.  The next season he finally made the 53-man roster and will now enter 2016 with one season toward his pension and free agency.  But looking at things realistically, if he makes the 53 for the next few seasons, by the time he is an unrestricted free agent — which is when the majority of NFL players “cash in” — he will be 29, so he is playing in hopes of getting that one big contract.

But again, this is the exception, not the rule.  Most players who sit out an entire NFL season have very little chance of making it back to the NFL.  This is not always because they do not have the ability to play at the NFL level. It’s just that the reality of the business is that most NFL teams would rather take a chance on a player coming out of college than one who has been “on the street” for a year.  That is extremely frustrating to both the agent and his client.  Some players who have been in training camps feel they have the ability to play in the NFL and in some cases they are correct.  Many times I have had a client tell me, “just get me an opportunity and I know I will get it done.”  The problem is that often, even though an agent may spend hours calling NFL teams and even trying to call in favors, he is unable to get another opportunity for the player.  It is at that point I feel an agent has an obligation to speak with his player and tell him it is time to move on.


More from Howard on Friday, including a recent experience with a client in just this situation.

The Road Ends

29 Tuesday Mar 2016

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NFL agent

Today, Howard Shatsky, a longtime agent who’s pretty active on Twitter (and worth a follow) tweeted this. It reminded me of a conversation I had with a scout last week at Rice’s pro day.

We’ve always had a friendly relationship, so we talk when we bump into each other on the road. He was lamenting the emails he gets from agents this time of year, pitching him on obscure players that are long shots at best. He contrasted that with a recent experience with one of the biggest agents in the game, who’s representing a top pick this spring. It was a great illustration of the dilemma hundreds of agents are going to have over the next 30-60 days.

The hard part about this business is that there are so many players that get signed by, at times, desperate agents who just want to get someone on SRA. The agents, in turn, spend weeks promoting these players to scouts. Slowly, they come to the realization that their clients are not getting traction. Usually, that’s around the end of March, i.e., now. After all, teams should be expressing interest in the player, not vice versa. Anyway, at this point, these agents have one of two reactions.

One is that they hope against hope that, somehow, their clients are super-sleepers despite the lack of attention. This is mostly denial. The other is that they realize that the time and money they’ve spent on their clients will not be rewarded, barring a miracle. When they come to this realization, deep down, they know they need to have the conversation that Howard is referring to.

The question is, how do you do this? How do you crush a kid’s dreams? How do you cut your losses when you’ve poured so many resources into a player?

There’s another element that makes it harder. Every year, it seems, there’s another form of minor-league football that comes along and tries to make a go of it. All of them ultimately fail, but for as long as they hang around, they give players the idea that there’s a post-college level that can vault them into the NFL. In very rare cases, this does happen, but in the vast majority of cases, there’s no ‘AAAA’ level of football.

If you leave college and aren’t on a roster in May, the NFL pretty much turns the page. There are exceptions, like in everything else in life, but not many. So if you’re and agent and you’re honest with yourself, and you’re honest with your client, you have to have that conversation.

More on this topic later this week.

 

Increasing A Player’s Interested NFL Teams

08 Tuesday Mar 2016

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NFL agent

Here’s another way to look at the race to get a player drafted, or at least signed after the draft. It’s kind of got an analytics feel to it. Hear me out. It involves creating a market for a player, and how you do that. Today, I’m speaking directly to agents who are new and/or have limited client lists, and have lower-rated players they hope to get onto a team.

I think there’s a perception (and this is reinforced by the draft media) that all teams see players about the same way. I think there’s also a perception that every team rates about 250 players, one through 250, in a similar form to the draft itself. Also not true. Most teams start by evaluating 2,000 players heading into the season and reduce that number to about 150-180 draftable players on draft day. Whittling that number down is done differently by different teams.

For example, some teams (Cincinnati, Dallas, maybe New England) have higher risk tolerance. These teams are more likely to keep a Randy Gregory, for example, on their board even though he’s got a roomful of red flags related to this drug issues. We’re now seeing why so many teams pulled Gregory off their boards. On the other hand, I was talking to one GM who interviewed him before last year’s draft, and he applauded him for “getting naked” about his drug issues and what he’d done at Nebraska. The GM still took him off his team’s board.

Then there’s injury issues. If your client has had surgeries on his knees, ankles, hamstring, or anything from the waist down, he’s in trouble, especially if he’s a ballcarrier who’s going to take a lot of punishment. I don’t have a rule of thumb for when such injuries are fatal, draft-wise, but injuries are a real factor in the draft process. I’ve often heard that hospital day is the most important day of the week for a player, at least in the eyes of teams.

Now let’s look at performance. If a player was on a team with a player rated as draft-worthy, then his film is in the NFL’s Dub Center. That means there’s a better chance someone has seen him and, perhaps, taken an interest in him.

If you can make sure your client (a) doesn’t have any character red flags, (b) hasn’t suffered a series of major injuries, and (c) has been seen by NFL teams, plus he comes from an FBS school and he’s at least 6-feet tall, you’ve improved your chances of having the most number of teams liking him. In turn, this improves his chances of being on a 90-man roster in a couple months.

WSW: You Just Never Know

03 Thursday Mar 2016

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Agents, NFL draft, Sean Kiernan

As I’ve discussed previously in this space, I was on a panel last month at the Fowler School of Law at Chapman University in Orange, Calif. It was a fascinating time, to say the least, and a pleasure to hear some great minds talk about the business in a real, factual basis. So many times you wind up on a panel with people who think they know the business, but don’t. These folks did.

One of the stories that was told there I wanted to use for today’s Thursday edition of War Story Wednesday. The story is told by Sean Kiernan, a seasoned agent who’s based in the Los Angeles area. Though he’s with Select Sports Group now, the story he tells is from his time with Impact Sports, which is based in Boca Raton, Fla.

For what it’s worth, the five players he discussed below are taken from Impact’s draft class of Tennessee OG Arron Sears (2/35), Notre Dame DE Victor Abiamiri (2/57), Georgia DE Quentin Moses (3/65), California DC Daymeion Hughes (3/95), Oklahoma St. OG Corey Hilliard (6/209), Florida IB Brandon Siler (7/240). Apparently Sean didn’t recruit one of the players from this group.

“You look at it from a draft perspective, the best year we ever had as a company (at Impact Sports was in 2007. Erik and I were talking about it this morning. (All year) I was on the road between Atlanta and Phoenix, watching five guys, and I thought we had the best draft class ever. We ended up with two seconds, two thirds and a seventh, and I was at a company where we were consistently in the first round with at least one pick every year. None of those guys got second deals. None of them. One had concussion issues, was out of the league. One had a bad knee. Out of the league. One couldn’t run and played corner. Not a good thing. One, the top pick of the third round, got cut at the end of training camp. He was the highest guy to ever get cut in like four years, and he was the highest player on the BLESTO report and the third-highest player on the National report, eight months ago. And he got cut. Now, he survived four years in the league and he made it. We found the right place for him, but he never got a second deal. The seventh-round pick tore his Achilles going into his second deal. Five guys. And if you would have asked me, any year in my career, if I was to bet on any year of guys, that was the group of guys I would have bet on all day. All five of them, nothing. Then there’s guys I sign off of practice squad who get a four-year, $16 million deal. You just never know.”

I agree. This class looked like a lock going into the draft and even beyond, but it didn’t work out that way. If you get into this business, understand that it’s very fickle. There are no guarantees.

Straight Talk Vs. Smoke and Mirrors

23 Tuesday Feb 2016

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It’s not often you get to hear what a GM really thinks. You usually get it cloaked in politics and tact.

Here’s a good example. Redskins President Bruce Allen basically called out OH Alfred Morris and his agent, Sean Stellato of SES LLC, earlier this month when he said he’d “applaud” Morris if he landed a great contract in free agency. It sounded like he was being magnanimous, but he was actually saying Morris and his agent were living on another planet if they thought the ex-‘Skin was going to be in demand on the market.

What’s more, you never hear a GM call out a high-powered agent in this manner. He doesn’t want to risk poisoning the well with a contract advisor he’s going to have to work with soon. In this case, Allen was basically tossing Stellato on the scrap heap.

That’s why I’m looking forward to Wednesday night (7 p.m., Room 144 of the Indiana Convention Center), when former Browns GM Ray Farmer will be speaking at Inside the League‘s seventh annual seminar. It’s going to be a prime chance to hear a guy who was once one of the 32 decision-makers in the league speaking candidly without holding anything back. Ray will not be politically correct on Wednesday. He’s doing this for free because he feels so passionately about speaking truth to the agents, financial advisors and other league professionals that will be there.

Ray has his critics, OK? I get it. His time with the Browns wasn’t all sunshine and roses. But I challenge you to find anyone at the executive or coaching level with the Browns during the Haslam era who hasn’t looked a lot smarter post-Browns that during his time with the team. I don’t mean to pick on Haslam or anyone else associated with the team, but the facts are that it’s been a rocky last few years.

You have to respect Ray because, like last year’s speaker Phil Emery, he came up through the ranks. Ray was an area scout — a road guy who was spending every moment on the road 11 months out of the year — with Atlanta, then on the pro side with the Chiefs before ascending to the GM level with the Browns. And oh by the way, he’s a Duke grad who once served as the Blue Devils’ academic coordinator. Those aren’t the kinds of things that academic lightweights do.

No agenda, actual league credibility and basic smarts on and off the field make for a pretty powerful combination in a speaker. If you’re an ITL client, I sure hope you make time to join us Wednesday. If not, fix that here and get on down to our seminar (Wednesday, 7 p.m., Room 144 of the Indiana Convention Center).

Author Eugene Lee on the Agent Biz (Part 2)

19 Friday Feb 2016

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Eugene Lee, NFL agent

This week, we’ve been talking to New York City-based Eugene T. Lee of MBK Sports, a veteran NFLPA contract advisor who’s been in the league since 1997. Eugene recently wrote a book about his experiences in the business, My Brother’s Keeper: Above and Beyond “The Dotted Line” with the NFL’s Most Ethical Agent. Today we’ve got the second half of our interview with Eugene. For the first half, click here, and for a war story from my history with Eugene, click here.

What was Brian Warner, AKA Marilyn Manson, like in high school?

“He was older than me. When he was a senior I was in eight grade, but one of my best friends from high school, his older brother was friends with him, and he said (Warner) would wear the polo shirts with the collars turned up and the denim jacket. He was kind of a preppy burnout.” (laughs)

Many agents, like you, recruit their alma mater heavily. Why do you choose to do that?

“There’s a connection. A lot of times (while recruiting from other schools), it’s buyer beware, but when you have a connection with the school, you know the kind of player that will get in, the program philosophy and the type of young man that goes to Notre Dame, and that graduates. Ninety-nine percent of the time that’s the kind of man we like to represent, in terms of the values we carry.”

How has your appearance on the ESPN 30 for 30 documentary The Dotted Line affected recruiting?

“I thought going into it it would help a lot more than it has. At the end of the day, if you have this huge client list of retired guys, it doesn’t really help you. You have to stand on your own two feet. It piques (potential clients’) interest but you gotta come with something behind it. Maybe going in I thought it would have much more of a compelling effect, but at the end of the day you really have to recruit a player based on what you can offer him, as far as services and experience, and I would have it no other way. If they signed with me just (because I was on The Dotted Line), I’d have questions about him.”

The book title claims that you are the game’s “Most Ethical Agent.” Interesting title. How did you decide on it?

“Well, I came up with the name, “My Brother’s Keeper,” and I loved that reference. It’s a biblical reference, and speaks about my faith, and being a Christian, and the mentality that I have when I represent a young man. “Above and Beyond The Dotted Line” and “By the NFL’s Most Ethical Agent” came form my publisher. They said, ‘it has to be superlative,’ and I said, ‘I know I’m ethical, but I don’t want to brag,’ and they said, ‘just go with it.’” (chuckles)

You’re aggressive about getting film into the hands of scouts, whereas most agents see it as unnecessary in the modern cyber age. Do scouts really take your DVDs and watch them? How do you know?

“We haven’t done DVDs in a few years. We’ve gone digital. The NFL’s Dub Center (the league’s film bank) has the games, but the reason we do that is to make sure they watch the best film on our guys. . . If you have a small-school player, like a Brian Witherspoon, teams might not have all his games in the Dub Center, so it’s valuable especially for smaller-school players. Now we send out MP4 files and links via email.”

Author Eugene Lee on the Agent Biz (Pt. 1)

18 Thursday Feb 2016

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Eugene Lee, NFL agent

On Wednesday, I introduced New York City-based contract advisor Eugene Lee of MKT Sports, a long-time friend and ITL client. Eugene, who was featured in a 30 for 30 documentary called The Dotted Line, also recently wrote a book about his experiences, and it’s very good.

I asked him a few questions about the book, and his responses are below.

Many agents’ friendships with college athletes prompt them to go into the agent world. You discuss your relationship with Hall of Famer Jerome Bettis while you both attended Notre Dame. Did this spur your desire to be an agent?

“It really wasn’t Jerome. At the time, he was just a friend. I didn’t get to thinking about being an agent until I was in law school, and got to be friends with football players later while playing pickup basketball with them, and I knew I could really help them. Back then, the industry had a real black eye, and agents were doing whatever it took to sign players. The relationships I developed on the basketball court at Notre Dame were pretty much what prompted me to get into this field, and my desire to stay around the game and compete and make a difference. As I’ve gotten older and there’s a bigger age gap, I feel that responsiblilty a lot more, and as far as being a mentor and a Christian, it’s equivalent to shining light where there’s darkness.”

In the book, you tell the story of your recruitment of Notre Dame’s Deveron Harper, and how when you finally met, it became apparent he had no idea you were Asian. Do you think he would have come to New York City if he’d known you weren’t black?

“Absolutely. Deveron was one of my first and favorite clients, and we had built up such a rapport over the phone over the first couple months that he just expected a black guy. He laughed when I wasn’t, but he’s as colorblind as I am. Absolutely (he would have come). It was just more of a funny time when it came as a complete surprise.”

In the book, you tell the story of one recruiting trip almost foiled because you found yourself covered in Wendy’s chili. How did your love for it develop?

(Chuckles) “I will say that I hadn’t had Wendy’s chili for 20 years (before that story took place), but I can tell you exactly where the love developed. I was at a Panthers game in Dec. 2009, and we had a couple Panthers as clients, and I’ve always prided myself on eating healthy and clean. We were at the game, and there were not many healthy options at the concession stands at the stadiums, but at Ericsson Stadium, they did have Wendy’s chili. So my associate, Dennis, said, ‘hey, get some chili, it’s the healthiest thing available,’ so I said, let me give it a shot. I had some, and it was great, so it became my staple on the road when I wanted to eat healthy. That was the case until about a year ago when my brother-in-law told me, ‘yeah, there’s this article about what they actually put into Wendy’s chili,’ and after that, I’ll never eat Wendy’s chili again (chuckles). So my love of Wendy’s chili has gone by the wayside.”

How do you determine which trips to take your wife on? Do you do this because you spend so little time with her during recruiting?

“Absolutely. I’m on the road quite a bit, and (my) wife really has to make sacrifices, and I’m very appreciative of that. She is the big determinant of what trips she takes. Warm city, fun city, she’s coming. A couple years ago, we went to Memphis. That was an easy sell. Great music, great food, and we went to Graceland. Or if we’re visiting friends in a city, she’ll go, but usually if there’s warm weather, it’s a fun city, there’s good culture, or a there’s a connection with people in the city, she’ll come on the trip.”

More from Eugene on Friday.

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