If you read this blog regularly, you probably already know who Fran Duffy is. If not, I’m glad you’re reading this, because you need to.

I’m not a big fan of the usual NFL Draft-related podcasts that tout players and make predictable predictions. When I invest 30 minutes or an hour, I want to know I’m gonna learn something, and that’s what happens when I listen to Fran’s podcasts, Journey to the Draft and the Eagle Eye in the Sky. They’re both insightful and far from the run-of-the-mill podcasts out there these days.

This week, as I wrapped up the Best Player Available Podcast on the 2017 NFL Draft, I invited Fran to join me to discuss the lessons we both learned from the series. Like me, Fran is passionate about learning and dedicated to his craft. Truth be told he’s either a junkie or a nerd about this stuff, just like I am. 

Here are a few things we talked about in this week’s edition.

Best player available vs. need-based drafting: I think there’s a perception that real scouts, real evaluators, the mature people in the business, adhere tightly to their boards and only take the very next name on the list, everything else be damned. The truth is that few teams can afford to be purists. In today’s NFL, there are two places to fill holes, free agency and the draft, and if there are no fits in free agency, you have to be practical.

Culture and cohesion count: Fran made the point that the Saints have had success in the draft because AGM Jeff Ireland and head coach Sean Payton are both products of the Bill Parcells tree. That allows them to more often be on the same page, which is especially valuable in an era when collaboration between coaches and scouts is the new way. I made a point about this on Twitter this week, as well. 

It’s getting harder to evaluate players: One recurring theme of the podcast was the risk that comes with making decisions on players that have very limited college playing experience. Look at the quarterbacks in this draft class; Mac Jones, Trey Lance and even Justin Fields were far from old hands at playing quarterback at the highest level. Now that we’ve seen elite players skip their final seasons with no reprisals on draft day, that could become even more pronounced. It will require teams to guess more. I guess that will lead to more volatility in the selection process, which is one of the fascinating parts of the draft, anyway.

I hope you can check out this week’s podcast. It was a full hour of intense discussion of the process and how it works as described by nine men who played prominent roles in NFL front offices in 2017. In the meantime, I’m working on an idea for my next series. More to come. If there’s something you’d like to hear, or have an idea, let me know on Twitter. DMs open. 

I was really excited to welcome Saints Assistant GM Jeff Ireland to the Best Player Available Podcast this week. He was kind enough to join me post-draft to discuss one of the best draft classes any team has had in the last decade, at least. In fact, he took home an award on behalf of his team’s work in 2017. 

Here are a few of the best quotes from my discussion with Jeff.

On his concerns about drafting Ohio State DC Marshon Lattimore: “You know, Marshon really only played the one season there at Ohio State, and that was a little bit of a concern. And look, there’s some old axioms that I learned over the years in the league, a lot of them being from (former NFL head coach Bill) Parcells. He’d say, be careful (with) the one-year player, the one-year starter, and those were all kind of echoing in the back of my mind as I’m taking Marshon. But again, we felt like the talent was too good. We just saw a competitive player with Marshon with tremendous ability, good ball skills, good character. So we weren’t as concerned and I just felt like it was worth the risk.”

On stacking up talent at impact positions: “I’ll say it one hundred times. If I have to say it a thousand (times), I will. I won’t hesitate to build strength at a core position. That’s something I learned a long time ago, and it was echoing in my head in this year’s draft with the (Houston DE) Payton Turner pick. Don’t be afraid to build a strength at a core position. Defensive end, (cornerback), offensive tackle. I’m not afraid to do that. And when you have a strength, you can do a lot of things and you can kind of maintain consistency at difficult positions.”

On whether the Saints would have taken North Carolina’s Mitchell Trubisky or Clemson’s Deshaun Watson if they had been available later: “We had them both in the first round. You know, I would rather not say who we liked more, but we saw the as first-rounders. . . We felt like they were both capable starters. We loved the athletes, and with (Watson), we loved his makeup, and it’s very, very sad to see what’s going on with him now. And Trubisky had the arm and and the upside and, you know, again, the makeup as well. So we liked them both. I would be lying if I didn’t say we like them both.”

On the selection of Utah’s Marcus Williams and the urgency to find a way to get Tennessee’s Alvin Kamara: “I give credit to Sean (Payton) and really one of my area scouts at the time, Cody Rager. Cody just nailed the makeup and the character of Alvin. And the more we spent time with him . . . we obviously went to Tennessee and worked him out. I think I talk about that in your book foreword, and we just kind of fell in love with him. Certainly, Sean did, and he had a clear vision for him. So after we took Marcus, we were trying to . . . there was a huge sense of urgency. Now, we . . . had two third-round picks in our in our back pocket and really kind of felt like we wanted to use both of those, because we just had some targeted players that we had wanted to kind of go after. So we were really trying to to get another pick either in the bottom of the second or the top of the third. And we were calling everybody at the bottom of the second, everybody at the top of the third. . . I think we traded with the San Francisco 49ers for the top of the third-round pick, not at the very top, but it was close to it. . . But yeah, there was a lot of urgency.”

Next week, Fran Duffy of PhiladelphiaEagles.com will join me for the last episode of the 10-episode series, and we’ll talk about the first nine shows and our observations about the ’17 draft class and how teams draft. I hope you can join us. Fran is outstanding and I can’t wait to talk football with him. I’m sure you already follow him, but if you don’t, I highly recommend it.

For the eighth episode of our new podcast on the 2017 NFL Draft, our guest was former Chiefs Director of Pro Personnel Will Lewis. Here are a few of the thoughts he shared on the broadcast, which we published Thursday.

On the role of then-running backs coach Eric Bienemy in developing Toledo OH Kareem Hunt, as well as the team’s decision to draft Hunt: “As far as, you know, being able to learn and being able to to get to that point where he could be a pretty good player, I think when you have Eric Bienemy as the running backs coach, you feel pretty good about what he can get out of almost any player. So I think with all those things factoring in, I think we felt pretty good about (Hunt).

On the other running back Will, in particular, liked for the Chiefs in 2017: “Everybody was impressed with (Florida State’s) Dalvin Cook, and I think I can’t speak for Bienemy, but I think Bienemy had him up pretty high in the mix, partly because he could run downhill, he had speed to bounce outside, and, I mean, he could catch the ball. He was pretty good on the screens. So in our offense at the time and Kansas City’s offense, that was one of the things that you were looking for in a running back. So I have to think that Dalvin Cook was up there pretty high for us.”

On the “tree” of general managers who learned under former Packers GM Ron Wolf: “I think the background for a guy like (former Chiefs GM John) Dorsey started with Green Bay, and that’s the way Ron Wolf did things, and Dorsey was a little bit of a clone, so to speak. He liked to do things exactly like Ron did, whether it was antiquated or not. But, you know, that’s the system that he grew up with and believed wholeheartedly in. So (former Packers GM) Ted Thompson did the same thing. (Seahawks GM) John Schneider did it the same way. (Former Washington GM Scot) McCloughan did it the same way. I imagine (former Raiders GM) Reggie McKenzie does the same way. So a lot of those guys . . . were in Green Bay at one point and (when) then branched off, I think they ran similar systems.”

On the team’s slow buy-in on Texas Tech’s Patrick Mahomes: “Patrick was an interesting study, and I say that because initially he was kind of missing from the top tier of our board. I mean, he was on there, and it’s like, ‘OK, well, we’ll kind of get to him a little bit.’ So it was it was kind of a little bit of a quiet deal. It was more of a deal where you could see him building momentum as it came along, and I think that was partly because of who was pushing him and who knew a lot about him, who had studied him a lot. And as all that information started coming in, you can see him gradually working his way up the boards.”

On why Iowa TE George Kittle fell to the fifth round: “I would say coming out of Iowa, I mean, with their ground and pound, that it probably didn’t showcase his skills where people would say, ‘this guy is a first- or second-round type tight end.’ So I think that hurt him a little bit as opposed to, had he gone to some West Coast team or down in the SEC where they threw the ball all the time. . . You got tough guys (at Iowa) that just play hard. So I think that was the perception of Kittle, is that he is an in-line blocker. He is a tough guy, I mean, with adequate hands. And he sure went to the right place at the right time.”

Be sure to check out this week’s podcast with Will, who was really sensational. For more on our podcast, and this year’s first round, check out our Friday Wrap. You can register for it here.

This morning, our partners at NFL Draft Bible on SI.com released the seventh edition of our new series, the Best Player Available Podcast. This week, our guest is former NFL player and scout Charlie Peprah.

Not only did Charlie play defensive back at Alabama, followed by time with the Packers, Falcons and Cowboys, but he also served as an area scout for the Packers, one of the best-drafting teams in the league. That makes him not only an expert on the scouting process, but also holder of a unique perspective on the preeminent college football program in the country and a perspective on actually playing cornerback and safety in the league.

Here are a few of his thoughts from this week’s podcast:

On liking Clemson’s Deshaun Watson as his QB1 in 2017: “Watson just had more of a complete picture, I guess. Played at a bigger school. The Alabama game really did it, too. If you don’t remember, when they beat Alabama his last year, he actually kinda started out a little slow, got rattled quite a bit in the beginning, and I’m thinking, ‘OK, we’re about to see what he’s made of,’ and then he kinda settled in, stood up tall and brought them back, so that showed us something. It showed me something. That, for me, is what pushed him up there.”

On Green Bay’s front office/scouting staff philosophy: “There’s a lot of great football minds in that building, and so, when they hire guys, they’re not just kinda hiring guys that are just gonna go out and collect data. They got guys that, they’re gonna trust their opinion, and they believe in them, so the process kinda handles all of that, and they really put a lot of trust in the process, and I think you put all that together, the area guys have a lot of clout.”

On Oklahoma’s Joe Mixon playing ability and on-field performance for the Sooners: “Now, for me, he was my favorite running back. I liked him the best. Just his height/weight/speed, combination, agility, just his overall game. I liked him the best. . . I liked him more than (LSU’s Leonard) Fournette because I’m not a huge fan of just kind-of big bruisers. I give them the respect because, obviously, he was an elite prospect, but play style-wise, I liked Joe Mixon. I thought he was built. If you’ve ever seen him in person, his lower body, his trunk, is thick. He was a young kid. I felt he could do everything (Stanford’s Christian) McCaffrey could do, (Florida State’s) Dalvin Cook could do, (Tennessee’s Alvin) Kamara, all those guys, and was built stronger, and he was younger.”

On BYU’s Taysom Hill, who signed with the team as an undrafted free agent: “I remember the last line in my report, I was like, ‘this guy is a hell of a football player. I just don’t know what you do with him.’ . . . When he was with us, what happened was, his pro day, I guess he went out and had a spectacular pro day, and they kept talking about how great it was, and how he was throwing the ball, this and that, but when he came to camp, I remember talking and thinking like I didn’t really see him as a quarterback. But again, I thought, maybe there’s something I don’t know. They really liked him, but he wasn’t there yet developmentally.”

These are just a few of the top observations by Charlie this week. You’re missing out if you don’t listen in, I promise you. Click here to check it out. Also, click here to check out the first five weeks of our podcast, and click here to register for our weekly newsletter, the Friday Wrap.

After our “bye week,” we’re on a new platform, and we’re pretty excited to be part of the NFL Draft Bible on Sports Illustrated network. There are a lot of informative podcasts there, and we encourage you to give them a listen.

You came here to read about our Best Player Available Podcast, however, so here are a few things I found interesting from my discussion of the 2017 NFL Draft with former Giants scout Mike Murphy.

On the value of quickness vs. size over the football: “What happens with (quicker defensive linemen) is they can get isolated on the guard, and they’ve got the quickness inside, they’re close to the football, and that’s Tony Dungy’s thing. He wants the quickness and speed closest to the football, and that works out. Depends on what you’re running. I know with Bill Parcells, he wanted the speed outside, would make everything spill outside, and Tony Dungy was more, he wanted the speed and quickness inside because they’re close to the football, so it all depends on what you’re running.”

On why he believed in Washington WO John Ross despite his limited resume out of college: “He had . . . elite speed, and that’s the scary thing to take the top off of things. I remember (longtime NFL defensive coordinator) Gunther Cunningham, (he) always talked about (James) Jett in Oakland. That was the thing. If you stretch the field, it changes things for your defense and your offense. If somebody can take the top off, and then catch the ball, it changes what you do on the back end and helps your running game out, and I guess he hasn’t, obviously, lived up to the hype.”

On the role of coaches in scouting: “If you run into a situation where the coach doesn’t want (a draftee) at all, and you pick him, they’re not gonna play them. Now, granted, the coach might not be there very long if that’s the case on a consistent basis, but you have to be able to come to some kind of agreement where, ‘OK, they’re not gonna coach this guy, so let’s not bother taking him for one reason or another.’ So yes, (Jerry Reese) was a scout’s GM, but he also very much took into consideration the coaches.”

On the mock drafts NFL teams use: “You know, everybody’s got their own mock draft. I think it was (former Dallas Morning News columnist Rick) Gosselin, and he had his top 100 out of Dallas, and he was kinda somehow tapped into the league and had a good idea of who the top 100 players were gonna go off the board, but you had different mock drafts you used. . . (Gosselin) was a big part of our draft process, especially in Seattle. That was one that they used out there with (GM) Tim (Ruskell) when he came in, so that was one that he would put up there and he would follow through who the top 100 guys were.”

There’s a lot more where that came from. Make sure to tune in. For a look at our coming shows as we round out the series, check out tomorrow’s Friday Wrap. You can register for it here.

With five weeks of the Best Player Available Podcast in the books, we’re taking a week off. Though we’ve been discussing the 2017 NFL Draft, there’s been plenty to learn beyond just the players picked. If you’ve been listening so far, I’m sure you’ve learned quite a bit about evaluation and how NFL teams think. I sure have. 

Here are my five takeaways from the first five episodes of our series. 

• QBs are often poorly evaluated: With three weeks until the draft, we’re hearing glowing things about Alabama’s Mac Jones and North Dakota State’s Trey Lance, two passers who might go in the top 10 despite having very limited starting experience. I think drafting teams should consider the Bears’ decision to draft North Carolina’s Mitch Trubisky. On the other hand, Ohio State’s Justin Fields seems to be devalued despite his considerable playoff experience. Teams similarly downgraded Clemson’s Deshaun Watson despite his participation in two national championship games. Watson’s current issues aside, clearly, teams didn’t give him enough credit for being a winner.
• If a prospect only started for one full season, buyer beware: Trubisky wasn’t the only player with a limited resume that didn’t live up to expectations. As we discussed in last week’s Friday Wrap, Washington WO John Ross, Alabama TE O.J. Howard, Michigan DE Taco Charlton and Miami (Fla.) TE David Njoku entered the draft with minimal starting experience and wound up disappointing on the NFL level. It’s something to consider when reviewing the cases of Penn State OB Micah Parsons, Miami (Fla.) defensive ends Gregory Rousseau and Jaelan Phillips, Jones and Lance.
• Don’t draft a player who’s a ‘B’ player at several positions but an ‘A’ player at none: Stanford’s Solomon Thomas was considered an athletic defensive lineman who could play inside or outside, though there was no consensus on which position was his best. He probably hasn’t lived up to being selected at No. 3. Similarly, USC’s Adoree Jackson was seen as an athletic type who not only played cornerback but also excelled at returning kicks. However, he didn’t turn out to be good enough at cornerback to warrant sticking with the Titans the full five years of his rookie deal. Michigan’s Jabrill Peppers was very similar and has also not lived up to his potential.
• There are strata of first-round picks; there’s the top 5-6, then everyone else: Talking to scouts and evaluators, it’s pretty clear that Texas A&M’s Myles Garrett, LSU’s Leonard Fournette and Jamal Adams, Stanford’s Christian McCaffrey and Ohio State’s Marshon Lattimore were the players everyone knew would be NFL stars. After that, there were doubts. I’d say each of these players have proven that scouts were right.
• In the era of free agency, BPA is a fallacy: I’ve joked that next year, if I do a podcast on 2018, I’ll call it the Need-Based Draft Podcast. While many teams do make some or all picks based solely on their respective boards, the lion’s share are made in reaction to the holes in the roster. I guess that’s human nature. 

We’ll be back next week with former Giants Mike Murphy. In the meantime, make sure to check out the Friday Wrap for more info on the business of the game. Register here.