I was having a conversation with James Jefferson, a longtime friend who’s a former NFL scout as well as longtime NFL defensive back, last week. James will have a special role in preparing Clemson DC Mackensie Alexander for the combine and his pro day, and I helped arrange it through Inside the League. Anyway, we were commiserating about a few things related to the game, and he said something that really stuck with me.

“My girl is always telling me I don’t charge enough for what I do, that I don’t value myself the way I should, and that I’m worth more,” he said. “It’s hard to explain to her.”

Amen, I told him. I have the same conversation with my wife, I told him. Then we had a discussion about how hard it is to truly put a value on what we do in the game.

Here’s James, a guy whose life a lot of guys would give up a limb to have. Came out of a small school in deep South Texas, beating the odds (he had to go to the CFL before the NFL would have him), then enjoying a lengthy NFL career before becoming an NFL scout for several more years, then a college coach. Still, he struggles to put a price on the talents and experience he brings to the table.

I see it everywhere. I’m often approached by first-year agents who want to get hired by bigger firms. They’ve never signed a top-level player before, and in some cases haven’t signed anyone at all, yet they feel they can demand $80,000 with benefits because they work hard and hustle. When they come to me, it’s hard to explain that they’re off the mark.

To some degree, I have the same problem. What we provide through ITL is unique, and in some quarters, truly desired and valuable. But we have to be very careful with pricing for a couple reasons.

One, in this game, you deal with a lot of fragile egos. If you charge too much for a service, some folks in this business will take the ‘I don’t need you’ approach. We get that a lot.

On the other hand, for many others, this is a vanity profession. Charge too much, and they say, hey, this is a glorified hobby for me. I may not even be successful with it. I’m only spending so much.

If you’re aspiring to be in the world of football, I think this is important to understand. No matter how hard you work, no matter how loyal you’ll be, no matter how badly you want it, there are hundreds of people a lot like you. Don’t overplay your hand. I’ve been in this business almost 20 years, and I’m still fighting that battle every day.

Last week, we got a lot of good feedback from our War Story Wednesday conversation with former NFL defensive back and ex-Saints area scout James Jefferson. Today (thought it’s Thursday), I wanted to continue the discussion with James (here’s the entire interview) and get a few insights on small-school players.

As a former player at Division II Texas A&M-Kingsville (it was Texas A & I when James attended in the mid-80s), James has a keen understanding about what small-school players face. In fact, James went first to the CFL (with Winnipeg from ’86-’88) before launching his NFL career with the Seahawks in 1988.

James provides his thoughts on small-schoolers below, and I’ve added my own comments and thoughts after each passage. Enjoy.

• “Jerry Angelo, who (served as GM of the Bears from 2001-‘11), when he was with (the New York Giants from 1982-1986 as a regional scout), he told me, don’t go (to the CFL). He sat right out here in this parking lot (after James’ pro day in the spring of 1986) and he tried to talk me out of going to Canada. He (told me he) would have the general manager here (the) next week because of some numbers he received in my scouting report (entering James’ senior season at Texas A&M-Kingsville). He showed me they had me running 4.6 (on the preseason scouting report), and I had run faster than that in high school.”

The two companies that provide a ‘primer’ for draftable players, BLESTO and National Football Scouting, have a big job. Often, especially when it comes to smaller schools at out-of-the-way places, 40 times are estimated by scouts or provided by coaches. This means one of the fundamental metrics for player evaluation is a best guess. This is one reason small-school players (and even big-school players, at times) get overlooked.

• “(Angelo) really liked me as a player, and back, then you could kind of hide guys and do things, and I had switched from playing running back for three years to defensive back, and that was my first time. Nobody had really ever got to see me, and I didn’t even start the first two games my senior year at corner, so that was a little different.”

Late position changes are another big reason small-school (and, again, even bigger-school players) get overlooked. There’s a learning curve involved when a player moves to a new position, but when he comes from an athletic position to a high-impact position (running back to cornerback, tight end to offensive tackle), you often find a player who makes a late rush up the draft charts.

• “We were fortunate (with the Saints in the early ‘00s) because Jim Haslett was the head coach there and (he had been) a D2 guy at Indiana (Pa.).”

For varying reasons, some teams value small-school players more than others. Teams with coaches and/or scouts that took circuitous routes to the league (small school, other leagues, etc.) are a prime example. The Colts, under GM Ryan Grigson, are one team that tends to look ‘outside the box’ to find talent. Grigson scouted and coached in the CFL and AFL before reaching the NFL.

• “When I look at all the D2 guys, they have to dominate. That’s instilled in all the scouts. At a D2 school, they have to dominate. You can’t afford to go out and have a bad game, because they’ll assume you’re not playing against the greatest talent week in and week out. In D1, you may go out and have a bad game because you may have two first-rounders going against each other, two second-rounders going after each other, and somebody’s gotta lose. . . (In D2), you were supposed to dominate that guy, and if this guy catches six or seven passes on you and beats you for two or three touchdowns, and he’s not on anybody’s radar, you must not be that good. That can happen at a D1 school, and it’s just, ‘well, he had a bad day.’”

In Division II, and in FCS as well, players have far less margin for error. A player has to stick out like a sore thumb. His dominance has to be evident to casual observers. If that’s not the case, he’s probably not a prospect. I know this is hard to take for many agents representing small-schoolers (as well as the players themselves), but it’s no less true.

For today’s War Story Wednesday, here’s a segment from an interview I did with former Saints area scout James Jefferson (you can view the entire interview here). In today’s post, I’ll share his thoughts on how an area scout can gather information from a college’s pro liaison, especially when a player may have skeletons in his closet.

I’m going to break it into subheads and categorize it a bit because there’s a lot here.

Experienced scouts have connections: “I was fortunate enough to be around a lot of coaches, and I was fortunate to coach at the college level, I was fortunate enough to play in the NFL, and do all these things, so you start getting to read a lot of people. The sports world is not always straightforward, and that’s football, basketball, baseball, doesn’t make a difference. That’s not saying just football.”

Every school has its own philosophy, and some are more generous with information than others: “It depends on what organization you go to. I’ve been to some places where the coach will tell you everything. Everything. They’ll you in and tell you everything, whether he knows you or not. I’ve been to some places where I had to know a guy to get information. Then I’ve been to places where I know a guy, but I also gotta respect the fact that his head guy does not want anything negative said, period, negative being relative. I don’t know what negative is. A young man is going out, he’s done something to get himself put in jail, why is that negative? That’s reality. It’s not negative.”

One way or another, teams are gonna find the dirt on players: “I’m sure it hit the papers somewhere. Maybe not, but we’re going to find that out anyway eventually. Every team’s got its security guy. The NFL works that way, so (when schools) think that they can honestly blow smoke and we’re falling for it. . . .”

Knowing people has its benefits: “I’ve been to a place where, and I gotta be careful with this . . . I’m not trying to get anybody in trouble, but I’ve been to a place where the case was that they couldn’t say anything, so I went and talked to this guy, and I went by myself. And he told me, ‘look, James, you know where I am and what I can’t do,’ and I said, ‘I gotcha,’ but he says, ‘look, come in here with the group of scouts.’ Most of the scouts try to talk to the guy all at one time, and if you know him, you get him by yourself, and he’ll give you a little bit extra. Well, I knew him, and I didn’t want to put him out like that and get him in trouble, so I go in there with the rest of the guys. But he said, ‘if somebody asks if somebody got in trouble, I’m gonna tell (them) “I don’t know, and you’re going to have to look that up,” but if (my friend) . . . turned to me, and he winked (his) eye, it meant, ‘check it out.’ But that’s because I had that rapport. A lot of other scouts have a different rapport with any of these coaches, and what have you.”

Treat pro liaisons well, and they’ll treat you well: “You have to be careful. You don’t want to get those guys in trouble. (Scouts) don’t work (at those schools). Me doing my job, and this guy loses his job, and he’s got a family, that doesn’t . . . But some of those guys, it’s a ruthless business both ways, and I’m not gonna say some scouts not gonna hang someone out there, but I couldn’t. I could never sleep at night.

Once again, experience and connections matter: “I try to get as much information as possible. Of course, if you know the guy, you’re going to get the information, but if not, you’re going to have to work a lot harder, but that’s where it comes into play. If you know a scout that knows a guy, that becomes a lot more beneficial. But you can’t alienate scouts, either. One day, (they) may be sitting on the other side of the table.”