Category Archives: Scouts

Volunteers

26 Thursday Jun 2014

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I wanted to take a minute today to talk about how important it is to volunteer in your quest for a career in football.

If you live in an NFL city, and you want to work in pro football, find a way to volunteer with your local team. If you have an FBS (or FCS, or good D2 or even D3) team in your city or town, go volunteer. Granted, volunteering for NFL teams may be a little harder, but usually if you poke around on a team’s website long enough you’ll find someone that will take you. As for colleges, summer camps have become a really big revenue stream for most coaching staffs, and if you’re willing to work for no pay, they can usually find something for you to do.

I’m always struck by how many people in awesome football jobs started off as volunteers, hung around, paid attention, showed their intelligence, and got hired. Dru Grigson started off as a volunteer scout with the Eagles in 2005, and 10 years later, he’s the Director of College Scouting for the Cardinals. Tom Ciskowski volunteered as a defensive coach with Butch Davis at Miami (Fla.) in 1985; in 2008, he was named Director of College and Pro Scouting for the Cowboys. Steven Price volunteered with the Panthers at the age of 16 and now he’s a scout with the Vikings.

Granted, some of them had an angle and had some assurances that if they put in work they’d get the first opening, but not all of them; Price started interning with the Panthers because his mother was a secretary there.

Can’t get an NFL team to even let you work for free? Have you tried the AFL route? Two Titans scouts, Jon Salge (Nashville Kats) and Brandon Taylor (Columbus Destroyers), were with AFL teams before landing a job in Tennessee. Bears scout Zach Truty was Director of Player Personnel with the Arizona Rattlers before coming to Chicago. Eagles scout Bret Munsey was Director of Player Personnel for the Orlando Predators before he latched on in Philly. Steelers area scout Mark Gorscak was the GM of Pittsburgh’s arena team in 1987 before moving over to the city’s NFL team.

I don’t know how many of these people got AFL positions by emailing resumes, knocking on doors or waiting in the parking lot to assail a top team executive. What’s more, there are lots of indoor teams of dubious nature that are not AFL teams, per se; they’re just teams trying to copy their model. Sometimes, these teams can be a little shaky and offer limited ability to provide reliable contacts.

Still, there are many routes into the game. We’ll discuss this at greater length tomorrow.

 

 

War Story Wednesday: NFL scouts edition

25 Wednesday Jun 2014

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Since it’s WSW, we thought we’d pass along a few stories about NFL scouts that we thought illustrated the inexact nature of the business.

I think there’s a perception that the evaluation process is very scientific, dry and unerring. Nothing could be further from the truth. No matter how many scouts a team has on staff, and no matter how long they’ve been evaluating personnel, there’s a human element to it, and people make mistakes. They always will.

One example of this is the Bears, who in 1991 drafted running back Darren Lewis out of Texas A&M in the sixth round (161 overall), though they didn’t mean to. In ’91, the combine was still in its early stages, but the league did perform drug tests on those they invited. Lewis failed his drug test, causing many teams to remove him from their boards. That includes the Bears. So how did they wind up drafting him? It turns out there were two running backs named Lewis in the 1991 NFL draft: Greg Lewis out of Washington in addition to the Aggies’ Lewis. According to reports, the Bears took the wrong Lewis off their board, then accidentally took the rusher struggling with off-field issues. Perhaps not surprisingly, the he lasted less than three seasons, getting cut by the Bears in 1993. As of last year, he was in jail after a series of petty crimes.

There are also a series of disagreements between scouts on teams that lead to players falling through the cracks. Longtime NFL scout Bill Groman illustrated this by telling this story at our first-ever seminar for parents of draft-eligible players in 2010.

“Dominic Rhodes was at Midwestern State, I think was the name of the school. . . Back then I was a national cross-check scout (for the Falcons), and I was in the Dallas area, up in that area, covering another school, and I thought I’d run into the school. Another guy had gone and seen him and given him a free agent grade. He was about 5-foot-8 and a half, 5-9, a short guy, and about 205 pounds, but I saw him run real fast, and I like speed, you know, and athletic ability, and I saw he had some stats, and he could really (play).

“I went and looked at film and tape on him, and then I stayed over on Saturday and went to the game. Shoot, the game I was at, I think he was at 200-some yards rushing, and did all kinds of stuff, so I wrote him up to be like a third- or fourth-round pick and make somebody’s team. The other (scout), I know what he was looking at was the fact that this was a Division II school, he doesn’t play against the great big guys, but I think offensive linemen, defensive linemen, from those schools, yeah, they aren’t playing against the big guys, but when you’re a skilled athlete, a receiver, a defensive back, a running back, I don’t care who you’re playing with. If you can do it, you can do it. He just stood out so much, and what ended up happening was, I was at Atlanta at the time and Dan Reeves was our coach, and so what happened is, I wrote him up good, and this other guy had just given him a free-agent grade, and for some reason or other, our Director of Player Personnel at the time put him as a free agent, and we didn’t talk about them, so we didn’t talk about him in our meetings, so Dan didn’t know anything about him.

“Well, he gets drafted late by the Indianapolis Colts (Rhodes was actually signed as an undrafted free agent after the ’01 draft), and doesn’t play, like, the first 5-6 games, and then they come and play at Atlanta, and the starting running back (Edgerrin James) gets hurt. Dominic starts the game and gets like 170-some yards rushing (Rhodes ran for 177 yards on 29 carries with two TDs in a 41-27 Colts win), and I get a telephone call Monday from Dan, and he said something about, well, this guy runs so well, and you know, I said just go look at my grade, which he did.”

For more stories from Bill, check out our video archive at Inside the League.

For another story discussing how players fall through the cracks, check out this interview I did with former Cowboys scout Jim Hess. In this YouTube clip (the interview starts at :34), Jim discusses how he, along with then-Cowboys quarterbacks coach Sean Payton, came to like an Eastern Illinois passer named Tony Romo. From obscurity, Hess and Payton came to champion Romo, so much so that he turned down a more lucrative UFA offer from Denver to sign with the Cowboys after the ’03 draft.

 

Dollars and cents

20 Friday Jun 2014

Posted by in Coaches, Scouts

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If you’ve been reading us for our first week-plus in existence, you know we’re here to help people fight their way into the football business and climb the ladder against all odds. We’ve focused mainly on three areas: NFL scouts, NFL agents and high school football coaches, especially in Texas. Though all three have had popular modern movies made about them (Draft Day, Jerry Maguire and Friday Night Lights), some are a little more glorious than others.

Today I wanted to take a quick look at two career paths, scouts and prep coaches, at least in Texas.

Used to, entry-level scouts were called ’20-20 guys.’ That’s because they were hired in their early 20s and were making around $20,000-$25,000, at least in their first year or so. Based on texts from a handful of scouts this morning, new scouts are making in the $40,000-$50,000 range now. That’s about double the old days. The downside is that it’s a very volatile business, and changes at the GM level, and sometimes at the head coach spot, can mean you’re out and on the street. What’s more, it’s not always easy to find another job.

High school football coaches, at least in the Lone Star State, are probably starting off in the $50,000 range, too. That’s because entry-level teachers make around $40,000 in better school districts, and by the time you factor in the stipends involved with coaching a couple sports (football isn’t the only sport for most coaches), you’re in that $50K range. The big difference is that if your head coach gets reassigned, you’ve still got a job. The other big plus is that you’re not on the road 11 months out of the year, as a scout is. Of course, if you’re young and single, maybe that’s not such a big deal, but if you’re more focused on starting a family, coaching is pretty attractive.

We’ll continue to discuss various football careers next week. Happy weekend.

Dedication

19 Thursday Jun 2014

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On Tuesday, as I’ve mentioned in this space previously, I spoke at a football clinic in West Texas (San Angelo, to be exact). The clinic, which brings in hundreds of high school coaches from across the state of Texas and much farther away, is an annual fixture on the calendar for prep coaches in the Lone Star State. While there, I was struck by a couple things there that really espouse the focus, dedication and single-minded effort that you see in people who are trying to accomplish a goal, in this case, climbing the high school football mountain.

The first example involves me. I was scheduled to speak twice about resumes and interviews, once on Tuesday and once on Wednesday, 90 minutes each. As it happened, I was slated to speak in a small room well off the main floor from 5-6:30 p.m. Also speaking at 5 p.m. was former NFL head coach Wade Phillips (one of the clinic’s co-owners), who was scheduled to discuss the finer points of defensive line play. His talks are always one of the high points of the clinic, and it showed, as he was given a two-hour time block.

Then, at 5:15 p.m., perhaps the most talked-about man in Texas football today, new Texas head coach Charlie Strong, was taking the dais for 20 minutes. So if you were a wide-eyed coach looking to learn as much as you could sometime in the late afternoon around 5 p.m. on Tuesday, your choices were a former NFL coach with three of the state’s teams (Texans, Cowboys and Oilers), the new head coach at the state’s biggest and most storied football school, and . . . me.

I should mention that you also had the option of hearing me speak — on the same topic — on Wednesday at noon.

Given all these circumstances, I was pleasantly surprised that we had 11 attendees. At least one is a current head coach in South Texas. Another, Deer Park assistant coach Nolan Patterson, is a longtime friend and a hot name in coaching circles who’s made it to the finals for several coaching jobs so far but not quite gotten his first top post. There were several more, and I hope they all get to the summit. They certainly are willing to pay a price for the chance to improve themselves.

The second example involves a coach named Paul Banks. I was fortunate enough to be invited to a dinner Tuesday night that was a sort of reunion for former Oilers players, coaches and training staff. Oilers greats Dan Pastorini and Carl Mauck were there along with several coaches. Paul was also there as a guest. At one point, John Paul Young, whom I’ve mentioned previously in this space, asked him to stand up and raise his hand. Paul’s a coach in Memphis, Tenn., and on his finger was a state championship ring for a title his team won last year. Here’s the story of Paul and his devotion to Angelo Clinic.

Now, Paul didn’t win a state championship because he’s been coming to Angelo Clinic for almost 20 years, and he didn’t win it because he used to take a Greyhound bus to the clinic, by himself, every year. It’s also not because he chose to honeymoon in San Angelo when his wedding day conflicted with the clinic schedule. But it didn’t hurt. And here’s my point. You’re going to have to take some chances on the road to success, especially in football. It might be missing the opportunity to hear two coaching titans speak on the off chance you’ll hear something that will help you get a job. It might be riding long hours across the country, knowing you could learn some coaching tips you can apply to your own team. There will be no guarantees.

I know I’m not passing along any secrets here, but I’ve always found it helpful to see the kinds of sacrifices others make, especially when, in Paul’s case, they pay off.

I encourage you to keep believing, keep working, keep taking risks and keep doing what it takes to make your dream come true.

Perspectives on personnel jobs

09 Monday Jun 2014

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I just texted a friend of mine. He’s got about four decades of scouting under his belt, but despite having as much or more experience than virtually any personnel man out there, he’s been out of the NFL for about five years now. He’s hoping (and I’m hoping, because he’s been a great friend) to get the news this week that he’s been hired on with a new team.

Meanwhile, I have still another friend who’s got about the same level of experience, and who’s looking around. His prospects are few, and he’s getting concerned. What’s more, he knows that if something doesn’t happen in the next 2-3 weeks, it’s probably not going to happen, and he’s looking at selling insurance. I try to allay his fears, but knowing how hard it is to get a job, I don’t know what to say.

So what does this have to do with educating young people about working in the NFL? Sometimes it’s better to start at the end of the story to illustrate a point. Today let’s talk about scouting, and what you need to know if you’re hoping to be an NFL GM some day.

There is no specific pipeline into NFL scouting, despite programs that promise to enhance your chances. Typically, teams start looking for interns in the spring and summer, hoping to begin filling these unpaid positions by mid-summer. Who handles the process? It varies. I know a few years ago the 49ers’ GM was handling entreaties himself. Other teams have applicants go through their Directors of College Scouting, while others have everything sent directly to Human Resources. That’s one of the things that make applying to teams tricky; there’s a trial-and-error element just to find out where to send your resume.

Interns may start anywhere. There are probably a dozen NFL scouts who started out as training camp aides, telling fans to get behind the velvet rope or dragging water jugs around. Arizona’s John Mancini started out in tickets, then merchandise, before finally getting his chance in personnel. One way or another, you can expect to put in a year or two before you really get a chance to go out on the road and put a watch on someone.

The profile of a young person being hired into scouting departments today is probably an ex-college football player who’s 23-25 years old. Chances are he already lives in or has a background in the city of the team that hired him (we’ll discuss geography and its importance later). Typically, he was picked from 200-300 applicants.

Now for the discouraging part. He’s also almost surely got a connection to someone on the team. Not always, but very often. I remember a few years ago calling a scouting friend who’s actually now a GM. I wanted to learn more about the hiring process for young scouts, so I asked him, how does a kid get hired as a scouting assistant? He answered by asking, ‘Why, you got someone?’ That was the tone as I continued to ask other friends in the business. Most of the time, if you’re trying to get into the business, you need a ‘champion.’ That’s something else we’ll develop more later.

There’s one more aspect of the business to discuss that’s become a bit of a trend. The Patriots’ success over the past decade-plus has had a major impact on the way teams do things, and that includes scouting. Historically, teams hired seasoned ex-coaches as scouts, expecting them to not only gather 40 times and background info from their contacts but also to develop opinions about players. From there, they’d make recommendations. The Patriots, however, have always centralized their decision-making at the upper-management level in tandem with head coach Bill Belichick. They only want their scouts to gather facts, finite things with little wiggle room like heights, weights, whether a player has been suspended, how many kids he has, etc.

The Patriots count on their experts to have opinions. Other teams have seen this, and in many cases have adopted this philosophy. This is good news if you’re fresh out of college and hoping to become a scout. However, it’s driven down scouting salaries, devalued experience, and lowered expectations for people in personnel. It’s really ramped up turnover in scouting departments; we tracked more than 100 changes in scouting departments last year and almost 150 in 2012. It’s also made it way harder for scouts who came up before the Patriots’ Way to find a new job. That’s why I’m really hoping my friend lands back in the NFL today, and my other friend can beat the odds before he has to launch a late career in insurance.