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Tag Archives: NFL Scouting

Rising, falling and in-between

22 Monday Sep 2014

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I’ve got thoughts on lots of different things, so rather than drone on and on about any one of them, I’ll touch on several topics today.

  • I know this is 2014, and we’re not supposed to be shocked by anything anymore, but did you know there is a service that ranks national youth football teams as young as fourth grade? Here are the sixth-grade rankings; my son, who weighs 90 pounds and played his second-ever football game on Saturday, faced the No. 2 team on this list on Saturday. He’s one of 14 players on the team; five others are in their first year on the gridiron. On Saturday, due to injuries and illness, we dressed 12 for the game. The results were pretty much predictable. By the way, when we shook hands after the game, I was able to look their biggest player (No. 50, pictured in the above link) in the eye. Actually, I looked up to him a bit, and I’m more than 6-3. He probably had me by about 30 pounds and I weigh 230. Crazy on a lot of levels.
  • LSU OT La’el Collins strongly considered leaving for the NFL after last season; in fact, it was a major surprise that he didn’t exit for pro football glory last January, as so many Tigers do every year. As always, it’s smartest to strike while the iron is hot. I texted with two scouts today and they both say he’s gone from a left OT prospect to more of a right tackle or even a guard prospect. No way he’s in the first-round conversation anymore based on the first third of the season.
  • Interesting comments from Shannon Sharpe here. Probably the closest I’ve heard to how I feel about it. There are limits to what even the NFL can do to control its players.
  • I told you in this space that I would be doing Leigh Steinberg’s new radio show on Yahoo! Sports radio tonight, but I’ve been moved to Oct. 6. I hope you can join us, especially if you’re interested in the football business and how you can get started, get established, and eventually build success in the game.

WSW: How to be a Saints scout

17 Wednesday Sep 2014

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Barrett Wiley spent seven years (2001-2008) as a scout with the New Orleans Saints. Now a successful entrepreneur, I had a chance to interview him about his experiences in the game. One question I always ask is, how did you become a scout?

His answer: a big break and hard work.

“I became a scout after having an internship with the Saints, and we had all the changeover between (former head coach Mike) Ditka and (then-Saints GM) Randy Mueller at the time, and the acting general manager, interim general manager Charles Bailey, he looked in-house for some help on the football side to watch tape. He knew I was a guy who played football, who had football in my blood, and he said, ‘Well, just watch this tape,’ and I want to say it was the defensive lineman from Florida State, Corey . . . he was with Philadelphia, Corey Simon, and he said, ‘Barrett, watch this tape and tell me what you think of it,’ and I was watching tape, and I was saying, ‘he’s explosive, he’s powerful, he can run, he can do XYZ.’ I was saying things in crude elementary terms because I didn’t have the terminology down, but he saw that I could evaluate guys, you know, I don’t want to say instantly, but I had an eye for that. Then he just let me, after hours, after I did my duties with the media relations department, because that was what my internship was, I would go there after hours and help out. After Randy Mueller came in, everyone that was in place, he just left them in place because of the time constraints, because he came on either right before or right after the Senior Bowl of 2000, so with that said, I just did whatever they needed.

“I used to joke with our football assistant that I was the special man, whether that was driving players to medical, to physicals, picking players up at the airport, babysitting them, getting cell phones for the coaches, whatever they needed, I did it, so then, by me not being afraid of work, they said well, we have a position open, and he’s earned a shot at it, and I was given the job of West Coast scout for the 2001 season. I did that for two years, then I transitioned to combine scout, which goes to colleges in a specific area and evaluates guys going from junior to a rising senior.”

I asked Barrett how he initially got his foot in the door. He said it was through a relationship with his father and a Saints legend.

“I got the internship through a family friend. My father was real good friends with (Hall of Fame former Saints linebacker) Rickey Jackson, and he saw . . . I had just graduated from college, and he was like, he asked my dad, what’s Barret doing, and he said, he’s working, looking or a job, and he said, well, since he’s doing that, I’m going to attempt to get him an internship. After that, I went to interview, and fortunately got the internship and it just grew from there. I was, you hear the stories, I was the kid who was always around, whether it was 6 o’clock in the morning or 2 o’clock in the morning. Whenever they needed me, I was there, whenever they needed me.”

WSW: Advocating for Urlacher

10 Wednesday Sep 2014

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For today’s War Story Wednesday, we turn to longtime scout and coach (and my mentor) John Paul Young for a story about the drafting of a legendary linebacker.

Young was the Southwest area scout for the Chicago Bears in 1999, Brian Urlacher’s senior season at the University of New Mexico. Given the remoteness of Albuquerque, scouts didn’t come in droves to see the oversized box safety who looked like a ‘tweener.’ However, John Paul, who had coached such legendary linebackers as Robert Brazile (Oilers) and Rickey Jackson (Saints), knew Urlacher had what it takes to be the next great ‘monster of the midway’ in the Windy City.

“If it hadn’t had been for (Bears Vice President of Player Personnel) Mark Hatley, (the Bears wouldn’t have taken him). Nobody else wanted him. I had to get up on the table for them to draft him. Of course, now they all say they wanted him (chuckles), but they didn’t at the time, I tell you that. In fact, several (members of the personnel staff) were highly pissed at me until he got to camp.

“He was playing strong safety (in college) and (New Mexico) would bring him down in the box anytime it was a run situation, which made him like a ‘monster’ back (a free-lancer who moves to the strong side of the offensive formation), and even when he was in the secondary he was making plays at the line of scrimmage. On a lot of plays, (New Mexico) wasted his ability. He should have been in a positon at free safety because he had a better opportunity to get to more plays. Anyway, as you watched him, you would probably draft him in the middle of the draft as a defensive back. But after I watched him, I got fascinated by him, because I met him the first time I was there, and . . . we just connected. I probably spent a lot more time looking at him than anybody else did, and I just felt like he had a lot of the same characteristics that I looked for in linebackers. You can’t put it on paper what it is. It’s just a feeling that you get from watching hours and hours and games and games of film.”

“The big question was whether to go offense or defense, and we needed to draft a quarterback sometime, during that draft. Just like most clubs, offense is a lot dearer to them than defense, so there’s always that. If you’re going to draft a defensive player in the first round, there’s going to be some opposition. You’ve got those guys that are ‘take the best athlete available’ guys, they’re height/weight/speed, and then you have those guys that are position-oriented, and it’s good if you have a spread to cover all those areas. Myself, I’m a guy that looks for a player that can make a difference, a player you can build something around, whether it’s a running back or a tight end or a quarterback or a free safety or a linebacker. Remember, (former Chiefs linebacker) Dino Hackett out of Appalachian State, that was a similar (draft) situation, and there was a lot of opposition between second and third round (Hackett was drafted 35th overall). And you know, Rickey Jackson was another one. But Urlacher, he just was a guy that the Good Lord blessed him with the ability to get to the football and diagnose plays, and that showed up when he was playing free safety.

“After we drafted (Urlacher), the coaches, when he came to camp, put him at Will linebacker, which is like safety, a hybrid safety position, and Mark Hatley called me and said, ‘You’d better get up here,’ so I went up there and we had a knockdown, drag-out fight, this time with the coaches. Me and Mark had to get film out and show them, and anyway, they said they’d try him there for a little while. He made Rookie of the Year and Pro Bowl the first year in the league. I’ve made plenty of bad choices, and had plenty that didn’t work out, just like anybody, but this is a team sport, and a guy’s got to fit in to the team, and has to bring something to the team, and has to enhance the team around him. You don’t hire a quarterback to win the ballgame, you hire him to help the other 22 win the ballgame. I don’t have all the answers but (I believe that).”

Notes after 1st NFL weekend

08 Monday Sep 2014

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Here are several random thoughts rattling through my head after the first big weekend of the NFL and college season.

  • If the scouts I talk to are right, Stanford will be hit hard by early exits in January. I’m told Cardinal WR Devon Carjuste, CB Alex Carter and OT Andrus Peat are all locks to join the draft early. Of course, if the team can’t get off the mat after last weekend’s setback and Coach David Shaw’s troops have a disappointing season, maybe some of them reconsider. It’s early, of course. To check out the others we listed, check out today’s report on ITL.
  • So I watched the Saints’ upset loss to Atlanta yesterday, and after seeing QB Matt Ryan play without any interruptions by the vaunted Saints DL, I wondered how do you project a player’s success at handling a big contract? I ask this because the Saints’ last week before the Falcons game was almost a days-long party for DE Junior Galette, who came from very humble beginnings before being compensated quite nicely by the Saints. He had a great 2013 season, but will a young man who entered the league as an undrafted free agent be able to focus on getting better after having so many financial dreams come true? The NFL does all manner of psychological tests on players as they enter the league via the draft, but I’m not aware of such a battery for players as they weigh a star’s ability to deal with success. It was just one game, but Galette, DE Cameron Jordan and the rest of the team’s DL were supposed to zoom into the backfield like a hot knife through butter. It didn’t happen. Oh by the way: Jordan’s contract is up after this season.
  • I’m always interested in looking at the makeup of the league after rosters are set (including practice squads, but kickers and punters omitted). Here’s the breakdown by position:
Position Total Percent
OL 499 19.58399
LB 334 13.10832
WR 304 11.93093
CB 268 10.51805
DE 242 9.497645
RB 223 8.751962
S 206 8.084772
DT 197 7.731554
TE 160 6.279435
QB 115 4.513344
  • Maybe there aren’t many conclusions you can draw from such a grid, but here’s what it means to me:
  1. Teams aren’t doing as much development of passers on practice squads, maybe because QBs are so expensive that they can only afford to carry two.
  2. Even though offensive linemen aren’t the guys you normally carry for special teams purposes, there are still more than 100 more OL than any other position. And even though teams use 5-6 defensive linemen in goal line packages, there are still 60 more OL than DL (499 vs. 439) in the league. So if you’re a big, heavy guy with potential, you’ve got an excellent chance to make a practice squad.
  3. Tight end has become a glamor position, but that doesn’t mean there are just stacks and stacks of big, strong men that can also run. Teams may WANT a Graham/Gates/Gronkowski, but they aren’t necessarily finding them.

 

 

WSW: My two big personnel mistakes

03 Wednesday Sep 2014

Posted by itlneil in ITL, Scouts

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ITL, NFL Scouting

We’ve spent this week, and a little last week, discussing how players slide through the draft or otherwise get overlooked by NFL teams. It’s probably a good time for me to tell my two stories about the times I was guilty of exactly the same thing.

In both cases, the stories involve running backs. All I can say in my defense is that running backs are harder to evaluate than one might think, and there’s plenty of evidence of that around the league. That said, both were just plain ‘ol mistakes, and I have to own them.

  • The first one I missed was in late December of 2006, when I was working with a game in Houston called the Inta Juice North-South All-Star Classic. I was a volunteer helping populate the rosters, and this was in the early days of ITL. Our game was in mid-January, and we thought we had a pretty complete roster; at the time I didn’t realize how much turnover there is in the last two weeks before a game, when players’ commitments start to waiver and some agents get cold feet realizing this is their last chance to pull a kid if they get a better offer. Anyway, we got a call from an agent I didn’t know plugging a kid from the University of Illinois. I demurred. At the time, I had heard of Pierre Thomas, but didn’t know much about him. We were excited about our roster of rushers that included future NFL legends Alvin Banks (JMU), Cory Anderson (Tennessee), Germaine Race (Pittsburg St.), Quinton Smith (Rice) and Abdulan Kuuan (Grambling). Pierre went on to become an integral part of one of the most explosive offenses in the league and helped his team — my favorite team, no less — win a Super Bowl.
  • The second one I missed was a year later, in early January of 2007, when I was Executive Director of the 2008 Hula Bowl. I got a call from Joel Turner of North Myrtle Beach, SC-based Turner Sports; Joel is one of the true wizards of finding under-the-radar NFL talent. He was pitching a rusher from Coastal Carolina that he had just signed. Joel always calls late in the process to promote players because, unlike a lot of agents, he doesn’t rush to get a kid into a game so the kid can turn around and hire another representative. This time I was no volunteer, so I had no one else to blame for passing on Mike Tolbert, who is now with the Panthers after a successful early career with the Chargers. I guess Tolbert profiled as a fullback (we already had two) and came from a barely established school, so it was easier to stick with the guys we had, like Ohio’s Kalvin McRae, Oregon State’s Yvenson Benard and Minnesota’s Amir Pinnix. Oh well. At least we got Chadron State’s Danny Woodhead right, and another running back, Toledo’s Jalen Parmalee, is still active.

There are probably dozens of other players I was offered in my days running games but turned down. However, these are the ones I still remember like it was yesterday. But hey, as I’ve said many times in this space, no one bats 1.000 and this is an inexact science.

Beating the odds

02 Tuesday Sep 2014

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NFL Prospects, NFL Scouting

There are always dozens of stories that come out of cutdown weekend, which was Labor Day weekend in the NFL. There’s one that has a happy ending that also illustrates a couple factors you usually see in players that make teams despite long odds.

Browns defensive back Robert Nelson made the 53 (not the practice squad) in Cleveland this year despite not being drafted. That’s rare, but not crazy. However, what IS crazy is that he made the team only after arriving on a tryout basis the week after the draft. In other words, he arrived at camp without even having signed a contract as an undrafted free agent. He was in town with 20 other players (16 from FBS schools) competing for one contract, and he made it.

Here’s what I find interesting:

  • The percentage of undrafted free agents who make rosters is usually pegged at about eight percent. I don’t know of anyone who’s ever figured the percentage of tryout players who actually make rosters, but I’d guess it would be under one percent. Nelson got the job despite competing with 12 other undrafted free agents in camp with the Browns AFTER competing with 20 just to get a UDFA deal; he was a true long shot. In essence, he made the team twice despite going undrafted.
  • One reason the Browns may have been able to slide him in on a tryout basis is that he plays in the west. Yes, the Pac-12 is a big-time conference, but there are just fewer scouts trolling the western states. It’s much easier to send scouts around to see dozens of schools in the east, where population is denser. Sleepers are rare, but they’re more common in the west.
  • Even with Nelson’s obvious ability, he probably wouldn’t have gotten a Browns invite but for two factors that were primarily coincidental (both are mentioned in the above linked article). One, he had the game of this life on the day the Browns were scouting Oregon State WR Brandin Cooks, a player they liked quite a bit. Two, one of the Browns coaches, Jeff Hafley, had a connection to Arizona State, most likely due to someone he had worked with along the line.

We always hear of players who beat the odds, who wind up making teams despite having very little chance of doing so. There are always interesting facets to each of these players’ stories. I hope this story just goes to show the capricious way things work out in the NFL these days. Even with scouting techniques incredibly advances and armies of evaluators out there breaking down players, there are still those that slip through the cracks.

 

Busy weekend

01 Monday Sep 2014

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If you’re in pro football, and especially personnel, there is no time for hot dogs and relaxing by the pool this weekend. In fact, Labor Day weekend is one of the busiest weekends of the year in the NFL from every side.

  • If you’re a college scout, this was the first big weekend of college football. All 32 teams took their college scouts, who had spent camp evaluating their own players as well as taking a peek at other teams’ personnel for practice squad purposes, and sent them to schools to do what they’re paid (mostly) to do.
  • If you’re a pro scout, you spent this weekend sifting through the 600-plus cuts in the league, figuring out who might work for your team’s 53 (for example, the Saints cut both placekickers they had in camp) and racing to contact their agents. You’re also working with the coaches to assemble your practice squad.
  • If you’re an agent, you’ve probably got at least one client (and maybe several) who got cut Friday or Saturday, and is looking for a new opportunity. Unfortunately, those opportunities are few and far between after a summer of evaluating talent. Most teams are playing a pat hand as they roll into Week 1.
  • If you work with the upstart FXFL, a first-year football league with four teams, you’re poring over the cuts list. As you do, you’re taking phone calls from agents marketing their players to you, while you’re trying to figure out which players are deserving of a tryout invite. It’s head-spinning work.
  • If you’re a CFL team, you’re working with the scouts you sent to NFL camps this summer to review players that may be able to help immediately. It’s a little trickier for CFL scouts, as they have to make sure the players don’t have any outstanding legal issues that may prevent them from going north. They also have to make sure the player has a passport, which isn’t a given.

This is a very cursory look at things, but for people who are considering a life in the football profession, it’s food for thought. People in the world of football don’t just work weekends; they work holidays, nights, and every other time most people are just sitting back and enjoying the game.

Last thoughts with Joe

29 Friday Aug 2014

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NFL Scouting

I wanted to wrap the week with a few last thoughts from former Jets West Coast area scout Joe Bommarito that didn’t fit neatly into one topic.

  • We all know height, weight and 40 are critical for players seeking NFL careers, and of course, production on the field. However, three things (in order) that scouts also look for are “good character people, good work habits, and smart guys who can learn.”

I think not enough is said about a player’s ability to process the volume of information that goes into a modern NFL playbook, but it’s a thing former Dolphins scout Mike Murphy also referenced last week. I remember a SWAC running back that a client represented a couple years ago. This player had led the SWAC, no slouch among FBS conferences, in rushing, and could catch the ball, as well. However, he was snubbed in the draft as well as after the draft, and had to settle for a tryout. Once he arrived with the team, he was immediately intimidated by the playbook and didn’t last long. The ability to turn diagrams and terminology into instant comprehension is critical.

  • Even in today’s hyper-media era, Joe said that doesn’t see the media as having a major impact on the draft process, simply because teams spend so much money and time on evaluation. “Scouts are focused every day on evaluating players at school visits, watching tape, going to practice, talking to coaches and staff, and interviewing players,” he said. “The scout is paid to form his own opinion on players.”

Interesting take. Scouts I’ve talked to are all over the map on this question. Some say their bosses are so sensitive to criticism that media influence creeps into the process. Others, like Joe, claim it’s much easier for decision-makers to focus on what a team’s evaluators have provided.

  • Speaking of the media, Joe said that nothing that happens from January to April has as much impact on a player’s draft value as what he did in-season. “Each game that he plays is like an interview,” Joe said. “He has ten of them, plus any bowl games. The all-star games, combine, and pro days are all additional parts to a puzzle that at the end will show you what a player really is.”

This is something I’ve always wrestled with as draft gurus constantly claim that players have improved their ‘stock’ at an all-star game, the combine or his pro day. Fortunes definitely improve for some in the spring, but probably not as drastically as fans are led to believe.

Breaking into the league

28 Thursday Aug 2014

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NFL, NFL Scouting

Today, I thought we’d talk about practical steps for getting into the league from this week’s guest contributor, former Jets West Coast scout Joe Bommarito. When I asked him how someone could increase his chances of becoming an NFL scout, his thoughts echoed those I’ve heard before.

“If I met a young person who wanted to be a scout I would advise them to contact their local NFL team and volunteer to work in their personnel department,” he said. “Also, contact local colleges and volunteer to work in their scouting department. Then make friends with everyone involved in the organization, because you never know who is going to advance into a position where they can make hiring decisions.”

As we’ve discussed already this week, Joe made friends with Herman Edwards during their time around Monterey Peninsula College, and it led directly to more than a decade as a scout.

He also shed light on how to ‘make friends’ with scouts, or anyone else in the league. Though he was speaking specifically about how agents could build bridges to scouts, his advice would work for nearly anyone.

“Go to workouts, introduce (yourself) to scouts, hand out business cards, get their phone (numbers) and email contact information,” he said. “Then . . . follow up with a note regarding “pleased to meet you,” etc. Ask their opinions on prospective players, etc. (It’s) also important to touch base with scouts at (the) Senior Bowl (and) Combine (and) work on building relationships.”

Obviously, going to all-star games or flying to Indianapolis to hang around the combine might be tough for students or young professionals looking to break into player evaluation, but no matter where you live, there’s probably one time each March that scouts — at least a handful — will come to your state. During pro days in the spring (most are in March, but some are in early April), scouts are evaluating schools at every state in the country. Finding out when a school’s pro day is (NFL.com tracks this and it’s usually readily available) and going there that day will get you around scouts. Making contact with them and expressing an interest in the business might be a difference-maker if player evaluation is your interest.

I’d make one more point. If you have a scout’s mailing address, write a handwritten note of thanks for a scout’s time. This would work if you’re an agent trying to make relationships or an aspiring scout looking to make contacts. I know it seems old-fashioned, but a lot of the scouts who have seniority and ‘sway’ within a department are pretty old-fashioned themselves. I’ve heard others talk of the value of a note. In other words, if you’ve got some old stationery around somewhere, it may come in handy.

WSW: Nothing shocking about Shockey

27 Wednesday Aug 2014

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NFL Scouting

We’ll depart from our conversation with former Jets scout Joe Bommarito today to tell a story from longtime 49ers scout Oscar Lofton, who covered the West Coast for the team from the mid-90s until 2007.

In 2002, the Niners were coming off a 12-4 season that ended in the wildcard round against Green Bay. The team was stocked with offensive stars, including WO Terrell Owens, QB Jeff Garcia and RB Garrison Hearst. The team also had a solid offensive line as well, and started Eric Johnson, primarily a pass-catcher, at tight end.

That year, they chose No. 27 in the first round, selecting cornerback Mike Rumph. However, in an effort to vet all the players in the draft, they interviewed Miami (Fla.) TE Jeremy Shockey at the combine. Oscar was part of the team that talked to him. He said Shockey didn’t pull any punches during his interview session.

“I did the Shockey kid when he was coming out, and I said, he came in and he said, ‘I’m gonna be the best in the league, and I’m gonna dominate,’ and all this stuff, and I’m saying to myself, he’s a little too cocky for me. I need to get our tight ends coach to talk to him.

“He was really kind of full of himself, and kind of rubbed me the wrong way, so I knew that we needed to get probably (49ers team psychiatrist Dr. Harry) Edwards to talk to him, too, and find out psychologically. Doc would sit in on our interviews and everything, and he was pretty good about drawing conclusions. And I said, we need to spend some more time with him, and we did.”

That’s Oscar’s polite way of saying he was a real jerk.

I find it interesting that Shockey didn’t try to take anything off his fastball for the purposes of making an impression with what was, at the time, one of the most successful franchises in the league. For what it’s worth, Shockey was who he was, if nothing else.

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