Category Archives: Scouts

The 2 Percent Solution

11 Monday Jan 2016

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Because it’s the season of all-star games, January is always a time when I’m with ‘my people’ non-stop — the agents, financial planners, scouts, coaches, parents of players and everyone who make up my clientele. It’s a pretty exciting time. It’s great to deepen relationships and make connections. This week, I’m in Bedford, Texas, just outside Dallas, for the second annual College Gridiron Showcase.

Seeing so many people here who understand the game gives me a great platform for answering questions about a business that has an ever-changing financial model. For that reason, last year, I decided to ask one question consistently to people around the game (especially contract advisors). Last year, my question was, ‘What’s the going rate for representing a player you know may or may not be drafted, but will surely go to a camp? What’s the going rate?’ Here’s the answer I got.

This year, there’s a large shadow looming over the business as the NFLPA seems set to lower the maximum fee for representing players to two percent from its present three percent. The players will vote on the measure this spring at their annual meeting, and it would be an upset if it doesn’t pass. For that reason, I asked three agents today this question: “If you can only charge players you recruit for the ’17 draft two percent, what will you do?”

I got three responses, and I’m paraphrasing them below:

  • “I have a great passion for this business, and I have other professional endeavors that bring me resources, so I don’t have to rely on it for a living. I’ll find a way to make it work.”
  • “I was always encouraged by my mentor to get on the business advisor side of the business. I could still work with players, but it’s not regulated and you can charge as much as you want.”
  • “I guess I’ll try to figure out some way to ask them to repay training fees (which can run as high as $25,000) when they get to the league.”

Three interesting responses. Note that none of them said flatly, “I’m out of football and I’ll never return.” This game, and this profession, kindles a fire in people that is very hard to quench. It’s why I always say that no one walks out of this game. They only leave on their shield.

More responses as we proceed through all-star season.

 

A Long Shot Deserving of Recognition

24 Thursday Dec 2015

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Today, I communicated with two friends in the business, former CFL and NFL scout Ken Moll and former Medal of Honor Bowl Asst. Director of Personnel Austin Atkinson. Both of them are working on the start-up Tropic Bowl, which is set for next month in Miami.

Austin and Ken independently indicated to me that they expect at least half of all NFL teams to send representatives. When you run a game like this, it’s all about scouting presence. There are numerous games held that NFL teams completely ignore, so this is a major victory for Michael Quartey, the man behind the game whom we’ve talked to many times in this space.

It’s still about three weeks until the game, and there is plenty of work to do before kickoff, so it’s premature to call the game a smashing success, Still, it’s definitely on the right track. Here are a few reasons the Tropic Bowl should not have succeeded.

  • Promotion of the game has been almost strictly via word of mouth, with no fancy media campaign on a major network.
  • The workouts and the game itself will not be broadcast on TV, though that’s becoming more and more popular with the “Big Three” all-star games.
  • The game’s arrival came a week after another game, the College Gridiron Showcase, had already been recruiting for a week after its own late announcement.
  • Players don’t get the usual trappings of an all-star game, i.e., paid travel and hotel stay. The players headed to Miami will bet on themselves by spending their own money to get a chance to be seen by scouts.
  • There aren’t any big stars slated to play, and none are expected to play. Most of the players will be solid, salt-of-the-earth types that may make a camp, but have a long way to go before becoming big-time NFL prospects.

On the other hand, here’s why the game looks like it’s well on the way to success.

  • The game is positioned in a place where scouts are likely to be anyway — in South Florida the weekend when scouts will be arriving anyway in Tampa for the Shrine Game.
  • Michael has been careful to surround himself with good people that have real credibility, like Austin and Ken.
  • Michael isn’t foolish enough to take on expenses he knows he can’t handle, like travel and lodging, just to impress a few people. He’s willing to risk being dismissed as a hack in order to be sensible and smart about the business he’s running.
  • By running other games like the FCS/National Bowl, Michael has learned through trial and error what it takes to run these games, and how to be smart about costs and personnel.
  • Michael is willing to take a big chance to make things happen.

Granted, for the millions of people who care only about which player their favorite team will draft in the first round, the idea of a game like the Tropic Bowl is pretty far down the list. But for people who want to find a way into the football business, i.e., the readers of this blog, I think Michael provides a blueprint on how to slowly build a league presence and earn clout.

More Innovation and Opportunity for ’16

14 Monday Dec 2015

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I’ve been pretty complimentary of the things Craig Redd and Jose Jefferson are doing with the College Gridiron Showcase, an event that will give ’16 draft hopefuls an audience with NFL scouts without breaking the game’s bank. Still, Craig and Jose aren’t the only ones trying to give young players a platform.

Michael Quartey ran the FCS National Bowl earlier this month. Though the players participating must cover a game fee (around $600) plus their travel, there were 13 NFL teams in attendance for a contest that featured the Dolphins’ placekicker, Rensselaer Tech’s Andrew Franks, last year. This month, he’s back with another chance for players to impress with the first-ever Tropic Bowl next month in Miami. What’s interesting is that Michael isn’t content to run the game with his own expertise and contacts. He’s brought in former NFL and CFL scout Ken Moll as well as Austin Atkinson, who was formerly a central part of the hugely successful Medal of Honor Bowl in Charleston, SC, which just converted to a traditional bowl format.

I sent Michael a few questions this weekend, and he responded with the answers. I’ve gotten several agents who’ve been asking about the contest, so I thought I’d present those answers here.

Let’s start with the name of the game, its location, its format (just practices? Combine included? Game too?), and how many players will be participating.

“The FBS-level Tropic Bowl all-star game will take place Sunday, Jan. 17, at 1 p.m. at North Miami Athletic Stadium in Miami, Fla. The practice schedule will be the same as our FCS Bowl, and includes two days of practices and one game day starting Friday, Jan. 15, with practice at Florida International University’s (FIU) practice field, a grass surface.

“There is no combine included with the Tropic Bowl. Approximately 80-100 players will participate in the game, and our coaches have been with us for 5-plus years, so they will keep implementing a quick-learning playbook that has helped many of our other alumni get into camps.”

What is your football background and background organizing and running all-star games?

“East Preps is going into its seventh year of putting on successful all-star games and combines. I’m a former certified NFL contract advisor for a number of years and have organized the National Bowl and FCS Bowl at FIU, which had 13 NFL teams in attendance last week at FIU Stadium.”

What will be covered by the game’s organizers? (food, lodging, travel, jerseys, etc.)

“The Tropic Bowl will cover the three-day event, including food and game jersey but not travel to the game or lodging while here. Also, equipment will not be provided. We are not a big-budget game, and compared to the rising costs of player representation and training, booking a flight and a hotel room for the player to get some more film and to be scouted is minimal compared to the potential gains.”

How many NFL team commitments do you have? How many do you expect?

“We just had 13 NFL teams at our FCS / National Bowl and have just finalized our staff including experienced Deputy Director of Player Personnel Austin Atkinson of the Medal of Honor Bowl, along with 13-year NFL scout Ken Moll, so we will start getting commitments from teams starting Tuesday as we send info to the league. Although it’s our first year, we expect a decent turnout of scouts. We already have some great player commitments, and NFL scouts will only need to travel to Florida three days before the East-West Shrine Game reporting day (in St. Petersburg, Fla.).”

How does this game differ from the FCS/National Bowls that you ran in December?

“Our FCS / National Bowl featured top talent from Non-FBS Schools and is not a sponsored event. The Tropic Bowl is partially sponsored by NFL Draft Blitz and our training partner, Genetics Athletics. The game will not be held at FIU Stadium in order to keep the game costs lower and make the game sustainable to grow over time. Hopefully, we can grow our sponsorship in the next five years for this game.”

Why should a player attend your game over the other bowl games?

“In a time where bowl games open and close regularly, the Tropic Bowl will give players an opportunity to get scouted and interviewed and play in a great game with players from across the country, and there is no fee for FBS-level players. If a players plays, lives, or trains in Florida, it is a big plus, as it’s a short drive away. The Tropic Bowl will not be about bells and whistles, but rather players getting film, getting scouted, getting interviewed, and just playing football!”

 

For agents who don’t like to think outside the box, this might not be the right game. But for other contract advisors (and their clients) who are willing to take a small risk, this might be just the right opportunity. For more information, email fbsbowl@yahoo.com or call 609-367-2911.

More Insights from ex-NFL Scout Dan Hatman

07 Monday Dec 2015

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Last Wednesday, we featured Dan Hatman, who founded The Scouting Academy to help teach the fundamentals of evaluation to people whose one desire is to become NFL scouts. Though our interview focused on the exciting program the Academy will host at this year’s Senior Bowl, there are always things that don’t make it into a post. Often, those are some of the most interesting things an interviewee has to say.

With that in mind, I thought I’d focus on some of the insights Dan had on the scouting profession and the direction of the business for those folks who are looking for an edge. I’ll also add comments on Dan’s thoughts.

Dan: “I left the Eagles in Spring of 2013, a couple months into (head coach) Chip (Kelly)’s tenure, when I had an idea for Dynamic Sports Solutions. We were building software to value players, to take what the scouts do and run it through algorithms behind the scenes to evaluate the player.”

Analysis: Even though Dan had a job in the NFL, he was thinking of ways to address weaknesses in the business and identifying  markets. The tendency of a lot of people, once they reach the NFL, is to say, ‘well, I made it.’ That’s foolish, for a couple reasons. One, you’ll never advance if you are satisfied with where you are. Two, when you’re in the NFL, you better always be preparing for when you’re not in the NFL. It’s a volatile business.

Dan: “While guys were writing code (for Dynamic Sports Solutions) . . . I put up a post on Work in Sports, and said I’d be willing to help people that want to learn scouting, and I got 100 applications. That’s when the light bulb went off that people might pay for this.”

Analysis: I know I hammer on this point here at Succeed in Football, but if you ever want to get paid to work in sports, you’re going to have to start out working for free for a time. There are simply too many talented people with a strong desire to work in football to comb through, so you have to pay your dues (maybe several times) by providing your work for free. That may be in college, may be early in your post-college career, or may be much later in life. It’s the price of getting a chance.

Dan: “Scouting used to be former coaches who weren’t good at the X’s and O’s, or were of a certain age, and they’d be turned into scouts. But in the last 10 years, they’re hiring nothing but people under 25 who don’t have families, and they’re willing to work for $17,000 and no benefits. I made $17,000 with no benefits for a year. That’s intern pay. I made $18,000 for the Eagles. Once you’re full-time, you break the $40,000-$50,000 barrier, which is first-year scout pay. Once you have more than five years, you’re around $75,000, and directors are making six figures.”

Analysis: This is truth, and good info about the salary expectations if you’re looking to get into scouting. You have to work a long while to get into real money.

 

WSW: Finding and Filling a Need

02 Wednesday Dec 2015

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Dan Hatman was in his 20s, working as a pro scout for the Eagles, a few short years after making $17,000 a year (with no benefits) as an intern, when he realized there was a need for The Scouting Academy.

“It was 2012, and we were in camp with the Eagles. We had seven interns in camp. One had worked for a football team, one was a college player, and one had a crazy story who’s now the Director of Player Personnel at a major university.

“The back end of the (90-man camp roster) was hammered with injuries, and we were having trouble keeping our defensive line healthy and working that third unit. We had exhausted the (undrafted free agent) pool, and we needed to scout the (Arena Football League) for guys, so we got AFL film and had to grind that. These seven had made it through the door, and they didn’t know what to look for in a defensive lineman. While they’re watching the film, they liked sacks and size, but (we) needed a guy who could look for the mechanics. We (the Eagles) wanted a guy that wouldn’t get other players injured. The mechanisms we were looking for . . . what kind of athletic ability did they need? What kind of size?

“(Most of the interns) didn’t have a baseline for comparison, and they brought me a list of 25 guys that they thought could make it.”

The fact that seven people working for an NFL team — people that were barely removed from the scouting department — identified 25 players from the AFL that they thought could play pro football was an epiphany for Hatman.

“We ended up finding one guy, and we brought him in,” Hatman said. “Anyway, it was illuminating to me. I had seven human beings at my disposal, and we needed one guy for a week or two, and we still almost couldn’t find any.

“So I started asking myself, how do you do this online? The more people I talked to, the more people jumped at the cause, and wanted people coming in to be better developed.”

It was just a few months later that Hatman founded The Scouting Academy. Today, the Academy boasts of several big NFL names (former Bears GM Jerry Angelo, Broncos defensive coordinator Wade Phillips and former Browns head coach Chris Palmer among them) that help the Academy’s students learn X’s and O’s from people who do it for a living.

In January, at the 2016 Senior Bowl, Hatman will take 30 Scouting Academy students to Mobile, Ala., to spend a week watching film, grading the players and networking. Fifteen of those in attendance will be from the Academy’s rolls, and 15 more will be former NFL players learning the ropes so they, too, can one day become part of an NFL team’s war room.

“Our hope is that we can take those guys that have that passion (for scouting), so that if they get that chance, they have the tools to do it well,” Hatman said.

 

Innovation in the All-Star Space

30 Monday Nov 2015

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Today, I wanted to take a moment to tip my hat to a couple of guys who are trying something new. Craig Redd and Jose Jefferson are a lot like Michael Quartey, someone else I’ve written about in this space. But this year, they’re trying a new spin on an old trick, and I think it’s gonna work for them.

For years, people have been trying without success to run an all-star game without losing their shirts. The economics of these games are beyond the scope of today’s post, but the bottom line is that most are set up with a week of practices leading to a game. The game is really not of interest to scouts, but it’s a way for a game’s organizers to recoup their investment. The bad news is that usually, a game draws very few fans, and the cost of stadium rental, promotion and, most of all, broadcasting the game run into the hundreds of thousands of dollars. Since Craig and Jose know this, they’ve scrapped the idea of an all-star game altogether, and they’ll focus solely on the practices.

I should mention that this idea didn’t come without a lot of soul-searching. First of all, Craig and Jose ran the College Gridiron Showcase last year just outside Dallas, and it held to a traditional format with an end-of-week game. Though it was very well-received by teams and had 10 players drafted (a great total for a first-year game), it was a money loser, so they’ve seen first-hand that there’s a need to try something new. Second, before they launched down this path, they ran the idea by everyone they knew in football, and it became clear that scouts had no quibble with workouts but no game.

Still, there are risks involved. Because there’s no game and no chance to earn money with gate receipts, they’re asking players to get to the game on their own. This eliminates another great cost of running a game: transportation. Flying a hundred players into Dallas might cost $50,000 or more, so that’s one less debt the game will accumulate. Craig and Jose are also taking advantage of their field rental (the showcase will be held at Pennington Field in Bedford, Texas, just outside Dallas) to run workouts with two other groups — draft-eligible players who will pay a small fee to be part of the festivities, and street free agents who still feel they have NFL ability. Scouts from the NFL as well as the CFL, AFL, IFL and start-up MLFB will be on hand.

Craig and Jose know there are no guarantees, but if they can pull this off, they’ve figured out a way to give young men new opportunities without falling deeply into the red. That’s both rewarding and smart. If you’re looking to get into the football business, I encourage you to do the same outside-the-box thinking.

 

Did Ezekiel Elliott Hurt Himself With His Comments?

23 Monday Nov 2015

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By now, you’re more than likely aware that Ohio State was toppled from the ranks of the unbeaten Saturday at the hands of Michigan State. You’re probably also aware that there was a good bit of frustration in the Buckeyes’ locker room afterwards, including some interesting comments and Tweets from the players.

One of those comments came from Bucks OH Ezekiel Elliott, who expressed frustration with the coaches’ play-calling and declared his OSU career over shortly after the game.

Elliott’s comments and self-control came into question in some quarters on the Web, so I reached out to some scouting friends for their reaction. They were in three camps. First, those who don’t believe it will have any effect.

  • “Why would it, do you think? Just typical ‘me generation’ behavior. Nothing to be read into other than the obvious.”
  • “No, especially when the head coach said the same thing.”
  • “Probably not (going to affect his draft status).”

Then there was one who thought it would be an issue.

  • “Yes, for sure. That kind of selfish behavior will have to be investigated further. . .  Also poor timing on announcing he will go pro. Sounds like an immature kid wanting attention.”

And one who said it may not, but it will probably complicate things.

  • “Most likely not. It will just cause him a lot more tough questions during interviews. Folks will push him with an aggressive line of questions to see if he maintains his composure or if he perhaps is what those thoughts reflect: self-centered. Someone once told me the best RB’s are guys that know how to appreciate and build up the OL, and in turn the OL want to block for a guy that makes everyone feel good, gives others credit. He might be best matched with an older Vet RB to show him that path.”

Ultimately, Elliott’s game will determine where he’s drafted, and a team that falls in love with the Buckeye may scrutinize his comments, but it’s unlikely it could have a major impact. Of course, different teams vet players differently, but it only takes one team to draft a player in the first round, or in some other early round. It will be interesting to see where he lands.

Do Injuries Count in Evaluation?

19 Thursday Nov 2015

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A couple years ago, I worked with a few scouts in an attempt to develop an independent ‘pro’ scouting service that would contract with NFL teams to evaluate free agents before the signing period begins. It never got off the ground, but during my research, I found out that there’s a theory in the pro game that injuries are not a strictly ‘bad luck’ proposition. I found there’s a school of thought that bad players are injured more often.

This idea gained traction last spring when I was interviewing ex-scouts ahead of the ’15 draft. One of them said you have to be careful when signing offensive linemen in the undrafted free agent period because if you’re not careful, you bring in players (especially offensive linemen) that aren’t strong enough to play. They get pushed around, might fall into the feet of your veterans, and incur knee and ankle injuries unnecessarily.

It came up again Wednesday when my podcast-mate, agent Justin VanFulpen, talked about the regular injuries that Eagles QB Sam Bradford, a former No. 1 pick, has suffered consistently in his NFL career.

To find out if this is a growing sentiment, I reached out to several friends in scouting. I asked, “Is it fair to say that bad players get hurt more often? When a player consistently misses large parts of the season, is that an indication his skill level is lacking?”

Here’s the response I got:

  • “Not necessarily. Usually, it’s injury-prone or lack of mental and physical toughness to play through pain.”
  • “No. (Texans No. 1 pick Jadeveon) Clowney (was a) great college player, hurt in the pros. (Stuff) happens. Lot of bad players are real healthy. They don’t hit. Or take a lot of hits and are healthy.”
  • “I would not say skill level. Sometimes (it’s) bad luck, but sometimes if it’s always always a knee or shoulder, they are just built differently and it is physics. But sometimes it shows prep work and heart, like (Bills WO) Percy Harvin.”
  • “Each player is independent.”
  • “Never made that connection. Beats me. Are bad soldiers the ones who get wounded? . . . I’m not good at thinking beyond the obvious.”

Looks like the ‘bad players are injured more than most’ school of thought is pretty poorly attended. That’s good news. It didn’t make much sense to me, either.

 

 

 

Draftable?

17 Tuesday Nov 2015

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One of the questions I always get from my newer agent clients is, “I’ve been talking to Player X” — sometimes they actually say Player X, because they want to keep the identity confidential — “but he wants training, and I don’t know if he’s worth it or not. Should I sign him? What do the scouts tell you?”

Before I go any further, let me mention that I addressed this question in a somewhat different way in August. The difference is that last time, it was aimed more at players trying to determine if they had NFL promise.

First of all, let’s address the scouts part. Scouts are notoriously cryptic about players that are outside the top 100 projected picks. Actually, in my experience, most scouts give you one of two responses when you ask them about a player (especially before January). If the player is expected to go anywhere in the first three rounds, the response is usually, “He’s a good player. He could be an early pick.” Note that the agent doesn’t make any real predictions, because so much could happen at the combine/pro day. On the other hand, if the player is expected to go anywhere after the 100th pick, it’s usually, “He’s a late-rounder, probably, or a camp guy.” They don’t get a lot more specific than that, and I understand, because there’s so much that could happen between January and May.

For this reason, I’ve devised three very quick, very cursory guidelines on guessing if a player has a legitimate chance to go to camp (and maybe even get drafted in the latter rounds):

  1. Was the player highly productive, accomplished and decorated in college?: Even players from small schools will pique the interest of scouts if they’ve been on numerous all-conference teams and started for several seasons. Often, an agent will ask me about a kid that only started infrequently or was hurt almost his whole career. Those players get drafted late sometimes, but it’s not worth the risk.
  2. Is the player at least 6-feet tall?: Used to, receivers, running backs, linebackers and defensive backs could get away with being 5-8 or 5-9. Really, the only players still in play on draft day that can get away with that today are running backs. What’s more, a player who’s tall and skinny can’t be ruled out automatically, either. Many training facilities can put 10-15 pounds of muscle on a slender player in 6-8 weeks. One note: obviously, offensive linemen and defensive linemen usually need to be well over 6-0.
  3. Does the player have obvious speed?: This one is a lot harder to judge, and very often, even NFL scouts don’t have a reliable 40 time on a player. Great example: Arkansas QB Matt Jones entered his senior season in 2004 seen as a very raw passer with some athleticism, but probably a 4.8-4.9 speed guy. For whatever reason, he didn’t time on ‘junior day’ for the Hogs, and his speed was estimated. Then he goes to the combine and runs a sub-4.4 40 (4.37) at 242 pounds, and suddenly, he’s the toast of the 2005 draft class. He never transitioned smoothly to receiver in the NFL, but the point is, speed excites scouts. If a prospect runs well at his pro day, at the very least, he generates excitement among NFL teams.

Obviously, this is a rather superficial look at determining a prospect’s value on draft day, but it’s a start. More on shaking out the draft process tomorrow.

The Box

16 Monday Nov 2015

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As we wind down the college football season, I’m getting more and more calls from agents and parents on issues regarding the 2016 draft. Some are related to agent selection, and many are related to leaving early. Maybe you have similar questions. This week, I’m going to discuss these topics and the different factors associated with the topic.

Today, I got a call from a recently certified agent who’s been in talks with a redshirt junior at a major BCS school. The young man is a receiver, and my friend asked what he should tell the young man, who’s strongly weighing departing for the draft.

The first thing I asked was, does he have the ‘three legs of the stool,’ i.e., size, speed and production? The agent responded that he has two of them: he’s put up wild numbers this year, and he believes the young man has sub-4.5 speed. The only problem is that he’s well below 6-feet tall. Though that’s not a deal-breaker, it’s become an important box to check. Of the 263 receivers who opened the season on NFL rosters, 193 were 6-0 or taller. What’s more, there are only 44 receivers under 5-11 in the league, and over the last three draft classes, only 32 are under 6-feet; 19 were undrafted free agents.

It all added up to a young man who probably fits as a late-round selection and maybe a camp guy.

On the other hand, he’s got enough credits to graduate. He’s fully healthy; there’s no guarantee the same will be true this time next year (and scouts are not especially forgiving). There’s a great chance one or more of the coaches on staff will be elsewhere next season, as well as his quarterback. In other words, he’s in a box.

My friend really wants to do what’s best for the young man, but he’s in a box, too. He’s already talked to scouting sources who’ve drawn the same conclusion. He can recommend that the young man put his name in with the draft advisory board, but given the new way the board is handling reviews, it’s unlikely there will be any useful information.

If he recommends that the kid go back for his senior year, he comes across as education-oriented and well-meaning, but if there’s an injury, it may dash the young man’s chance to do something special. If he encourages the receiver to leave early, he may look like the stereotypical greedy agent if he goes undrafted.

Unfortunately, many young men are facing a similar dilemma. There’s no clear, cut-and-dried answer. That’s what makes this time of year so difficult.

This week, we’ll discuss the factors one must use to make this decision. We’ll discuss the factors one must consider when seeking feedback from scouts, coaches and family members, and we’ll handle other questions we get via Twitter or in the comments section of this post. If you know someone facing this dilemma, I hope you’ll encourage him to check us out this week.